Who should call the timeout.

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

By the way...a coach cannot "call" a timeout...they can only request one.

Wow this takes "you must only use rule book language" to an entirely new level.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well, if there is a trap going on in the BC, the person with the least going on at that moment is almost always going to be the new Lead. If I'm him, I'm keeping an eye on the coach. Plus since this is the end of the game, the Lead is also going to be closest to the HC requesting the time-out.

Originally Posted by Dad

Not really true. Sometimes it'll be the case.

Do you just answer to be contradictory? If it is only sometimes, please explain.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Do you just answer to be contradictory? If it is only sometimes, please explain.

Half the time the C should be closest to the coach when the lead is opposite table side. The other half the coaches are in your field of vision.

I'm fine with the lead getting it, but I think the C is picking this up a lot.

[so cal lurker]

This all goes back to why coaches shouldn't be permitted to call, er, request time outs when the ball is live . . . maybe it's just me watching through daddy goggles or the games I'm watching, but it seems to me that referees (I'm watching HS JV) too often grant the coach's "save my player" TOs when the player has already lost control and does not regain control, which I have thought was likely because they had to split attention . . .

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dad

Half the time the C should be closest to the coach when the lead is opposite table side. The other half the coaches are in your field of vision.

I'm fine with the lead getting it, but I think the C is picking this up a lot.

It's the 2nd half, last minute of the game, 2 point difference. There is a press in the BC, which means the C SHOULD be helping the Trail with press coverage in the BC. The offensive HC is in the FC. The new Lead is either across the court and can see the offensive HC in his direct line of site, or he is on the same sideline and the offensive HC is in earshot.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's the 2nd half, last minute of the game, 2 point difference. There is a press in the BC, which means the C SHOULD be helping the Trail with press coverage in the BC. The offensive HC is in the FC. The new Lead is either across the court and can see the offensive HC in his direct line of site, or he is on the same sideline and the offensive HC is in earshot.

I'm in line for all of this, but as the C I'm calling this a lot on a good disciplined press. With this specific play and the game being so close and easily decided on a single play, I'm not ignoring the coach. I'm not focusing on him, but you know when a time out is coming from a good coach within the second, usually.

Even when the Lead calls the TO it's a good idea to be aware of what's going on, given it won't distract you from the play you're watching.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

This all goes back to why coaches shouldn't be permitted to call, er, request time outs when the ball is live . . . maybe it's just me watching through daddy goggles or the games I'm watching, but it seems to me that referees (I'm watching HS JV) too often grant the coach's "save my player" TOs when the player has already lost control and does not regain control, which I have thought was likely because they had to split attention . . .

This isn't a reason to change a pivotal role coaches play in coaching their team. If a crew messes this up, which I've seen to be extremely rare, it's not a basis for completely changing the game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'm in line for all of this, but as the C I'm calling this a lot on a good disciplined press. With this specific play and the game being so close and easily decided on a single play, I'm not ignoring the coach. I'm not focusing on him, but you know when a time out is coming from a good coach within the second, usually.

Even when the Lead calls the TO it's a good idea to be aware of what's going on, given it won't distract you from the play you're watching.

No one is saying to ignore the coach. But I would hope the official with the least going on in his primary would have the most awareness if the coach starts requesting a time-out. Knowing what's going on with the ball before granting the time-out is a given.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dad

This isn't a reason to change a pivotal role coaches play in coaching their team. If a crew messes this up, which I've seen to be extremely rare, it's not a basis for completely changing the game.

NCAA found a reason to change the rule. And rules are written by coaches, ADs, and conference commissioners.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

NCAA found a reason to change the rule. And rules are written by coaches, ADs, and conference commissioners.

I was referring to the specific reason.

As for the NCAA change, I really think it's a poor change to the game. They did come forward with some decent reasoning, but I'm not a fan. Almost all the issues could've been solved with enforcement of rules and/or better officiating.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dad

I was referring to the specific reason.

As for the NCAA change, I really think it's a poor change to the game. They did come forward with some decent reasoning, but I'm not a fan. Almost all the issues could've been solved with enforcement of rules and/or better officiating.

For instance??

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Wow this takes "you must only use rule book language" to an entirely new level.

Normally I'd delete this post because of the word I just deleted, but I agree with this mindset so wholeheartedly, I'll just edit it.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Dad

This isn't a reason to change a pivotal role coaches play in coaching their team. If a crew messes this up, which I've seen to be extremely rare, it's not a basis for completely changing the game.

Coaches were quite able to coach when I played and they had to tell us to call the TO. Indeed, it even meant they had to teach us when we would want time outs, when we should call them on our own, etc. IMO, granting the coaches the right to request time outs during play was one of the dumbest "innovations" ever added to the game (I'd add the possession arrow, too, except for middle school and below . . .) and increases the view that the game is about the coaches. The coach requesting the TO directly isn't about coaching, its about the coach wanting to be involved in play. Really, really stupid. Coaches should be coaching -- that is TEACHING -- the players what to do, not doing it for them.

I didn't say the scenario presented is the reason coaches shouldn't be allowed to request time outs, but it is an example of distracting referees by making them divert attention off the court to accommodate the coach. Eliminating the stupid rule change is not "completely changing the game," it is returning the game to where it belongs.

YMMV.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Coaches were quite able to coach when I played and they had to tell us to call the TO. Indeed, it even meant they had to teach us when we would want time outs, when we should call them on our own, etc. IMO, granting the coaches the right to request time outs during play was one of the dumbest "innovations" ever added to the game (I'd add the possession arrow, too, except for middle school and below . . .) and increases the view that the game is about the coaches. The coach requesting the TO directly isn't about coaching, its about the coach wanting to be involved in play. Really, really stupid. Coaches should be coaching -- that is TEACHING -- the players what to do, not doing it for them.

I didn't say the scenario presented is the reason coaches shouldn't be allowed to request time outs, but it is an example of distracting referees by making them divert attention off the court to accommodate the coach. Eliminating the stupid rule change is not "completely changing the game," it is returning the game to where it belongs.

YMMV.

I can respect this stance. There are some nuances of the game I really enjoy and coaches calling TOs is one of them.

Your mileage may vary? What?

[Rich]

And I fall on the side of liking coaches calling timeouts. I officiated in both eras -- and when they let the coach call timeouts, it made things easier overall for me.

Back then we heard a coach yelling and then had to find a player on the floor asking for one. The change just eliminated the middle man.