You're Driving Me Crazy

[j51969]

Originally Posted by deecee

Bob is correct.

BI mechanic is finger pointing down and then swirled over the other hand making an "O" symbol.

Shot clock reset is finger pointing up and then swirled. NY state resets to 15 below 15 and when I was in California (4 years ago) it was full reset at all times.

On a FT violation where the ball doesn't make contact the rim I usually point to the rim. I may swirl the finger, I don't know, but who cares. If my partner brings THIS up to me I would literally laugh in his/her face. Some mechanics may not be by the book but are used to convey information to the coaches and players.

The more egregious offenses are OVER THE BACK calls and signals. That's 100% wrong by rule and everything.

+1

It also sounds like you were working 2-man. Either your state does that for varsity or you were working a sub-varsity contests. If you are getting a partner that is competent and is working hard on the court what else can you ask for? Not for nothin' but it makes you sound like an a$$.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by j51969

+1

It also sounds like you were working 2-man. Either your state does that for varsity or you were working a sub-varsity contests. If you are getting a partner that is competent and is working hard on the court what else can you ask for? Not for nothin' but it makes you sound like an a$$.

*But who cares if they are laughed at in their face or not? That is irrelevant--the issue is signals--not how we might be touchy feely about being corrected.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

*But who cares if they are laughed at in their face or not? That is irrelevant--the issue is signals--not how we might be touchy feely about being corrected.

Fair enough. It just seems like picking a nit IMO. If he's stuggling in general I would focus on mechcanics that upset the flow and balance of the game. Like....proper location of out of bounds, effectively communitcating shooting or out of bounds, identifying the shooter, primary and secondary areas of coverage, and so on...

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Bob is correct.

BI mechanic is finger pointing down and then swirled over the other hand making an "O" symbol.

Shot clock reset is finger pointing up and then swirled. NY state resets to 15 below 15 and when I was in California (4 years ago) it was full reset at all times.

On a FT violation where the ball doesn't make contact the rim I usually point to the rim. I may swirl the finger, I don't know, but who cares. If my partner brings THIS up to me I would literally laugh in his/her face. Some mechanics may not be by the book but are used to convey information to the coaches and players.

The more egregious offenses are OVER THE BACK calls and signals. That's 100% wrong by rule and everything.

*But can you please explain why you are doing "finger swirls" to begin with if you know this is incorrect signaling? And, furthermore, what "information is being conveyed" if no one knows what it means. Although, I gather from the gestalt that this "finger swirl" action has become so ingrained in officiating signaling that it has acquired an "attributed meaning" as opposed to a "certified meaning".

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

*But can you please explain why you are doing "finger swirls" to begin with if you know this is incorrect signaling? And, furthermore, what "information is being conveyed" if no one knows what it means. Although, I gather from the gestalt that this "finger swirl" action has become so ingrained in officiating signaling that it has acquired an "attributed meaning" as opposed to a "certified meaning".

It's more like a point to the rim to signal what/where the violation was, and I can't remember if I swirl or not. I'm leaning towards sometimes. I think it adds emphasis that I really, really, really saw the violation.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by deecee

The more egregious offenses are OVER THE BACK calls and signals. That's 100% wrong by rule and everything.

You must be wrong. I saw that lurking-bear signal just this week in a JV game. (And it confirmed some of what I was thinking about the level of officials we had drawn that day . . . )

[j51969]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

You must be wrong. I saw that lurking-bear signal just this week in a JV game. (And it confirmed some of what I was thinking about the level of officials we had drawn that day . . . )

What is this?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by j51969

What is this?

kinda like this

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

Bob is correct.

BI mechanic is finger pointing down and then swirled over the other hand making an "O" symbol.

Never seen that one before.

The correct signal is hand up for violation followed by either counting the bucket or canceling the bucket. All communicated, nothing more needed.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

He was wrong.

So were you.

(Local instructions to the contrary.)

*thank you bob jenkin, when we meet up in Jan I will tell him that our errors 'cancelled each other out' and he don't owe me a pie.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Signals: I frequently see refs exhibiting this hand signal in a "1 & 1 FT scenario", 1st FT try is missed and the ball does not contact the rim, but just bounces off the backboard and lands on floor--the T will pop his whistle, then point to the sky and swirl his index finger around in a circular motion.

My partner did this last night and I told him about it at our halftime locker room break. I asked him as politely and measured as I could (because I know that he chaffs at being corrected on things) I asked exactly like this: "hey, I was curious as to why you were using that finger swirl signal on that missed FT when you were in the Trail?" He replied, "this is the signal we all use for missed FT's, everyone does it, don't you?"
I replied: "the signal you are showing is for a basket interference; for a missed FT which does not hit the rim simply use the normal violation signal (open hand held up) and indicate that we are going the other way with ball now".
He replied: "are you sure about that?"
I did not have my NF books with me, so I could not shew him proof; but I did say "I bet you a pizza that it's true". He said "you're on". Looks like we don't ref together again until January. I realize it is prolly a habit he picked up from watching other refs or it could've been a signal that has since been deleted from the NF? At any rate, it's driving me crazy to see certified refs inappropriately exhibiting this signal.

Maybe its just me...but if this was the most egregious error made by your partner in the entire game you had one hell of a partner and probably had a good game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

Maybe its just me...but if this was the most egregious error made by your partner in the entire game you had one hell of a partner and probably had a good game.

If he is doing that I'd assume there is some other stuff he does wrong also. I definitely wouldn't assume it's only error he made.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

..."1 & 1 FT scenario", 1st FT try is missed and the ball does not contact the rim, but just bounces off the backboard and lands on floor ...

It's an offensive free throw violation. And like any other offensive free throw violation, sound the whistle, state "Violation Blue", state "White ball", point in the direction of that team's basket, point to the throwin spot.

If it misses everything on the first of two shots, we usually don't embarrass the shooter with a whistle.