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Old Sat Nov 14, 2015, 12:37am
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Backcourt count

Here's a question that came up at our association meeting recently.
We had an IAABO rules guru, one of the best, bring this up....

Team A has the ball in their front court. The ball is deflected by team B and rolls into A's backcourt.... And rolls a while before A picks it up. Team A runs back and retrieves the ball near the free throw line. When does the 10 second count for backcourt violation start? When team A gathers the ball or when the ball first touches the backcourt?

It was said the count starts as soon as the ball touches the backcourt because Team A still has team control of a ball inbounds, in their backcourt after the deflection. I have never seen anyone count in this situation.....until A picks up the ball. If they did it may help with the understanding that any foul by team A while the ball is rolling in the B/C is a team control foul. I normally would not start the count until the player from team A has control. I may have always been wrong..... I see nothing in the rules to support or deny this.

Thoughts?
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Last edited by Mlancaster; Sat Nov 14, 2015 at 12:42am.
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Old Sat Nov 14, 2015, 01:02am
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That is correct.

I had a situation like this in my scrimmage this week. Gave the tip signal when the ball touched the backcourt and began my count immediately.
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Old Sat Nov 14, 2015, 01:58am
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That guru was correct. Team control continues in NFHS and NCAA rules after a deflection by the defense, the ball gains backcourt status the moment it touches the floor in the backcourt, and a team can not have control of the ball in the backcourt for more than 10 seconds.
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Old Sat Nov 14, 2015, 07:20am
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In NCAA mechanics where you'd normally rely on the shot clock for the 10-count, do you start a visible count in this particular situation or do you just glance at the SC and make a mental note of the time?


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Old Sat Nov 14, 2015, 07:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
In NCAA mechanics where you'd normally rely on the shot clock for the 10-count, do you start a visible count in this particular situation or do you just glance at the SC and make a mental note of the time?


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Crosscountry:

That is an excellent question. I will ask one of my friends that are still officiating college basketball.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Sat Nov 14, 2015, 07:47am
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I think the only time you use a visible count (in NCAAW) is when the shot clock is off.
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Old Sat Nov 14, 2015, 06:18pm
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Old Sat Nov 14, 2015, 09:34pm
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Can one of you tell me if the back court rule for the 10 second count are the same for NCAA men's and women this year?
I.E.: I understand that only three situations prohibit a reset of the 10 second count: Ball OB (without having established FC status), Held ball (w/ no change of possession) and Technical foul on the offensive team.
What about a timeout by the offensive team?
Women's provides for a reset of the 10 second count - is this the same for men's?
Tried researching it online, and figured asking you would be faster and more educational!
Thanks!
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Old Sun Nov 15, 2015, 03:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Refhoop View Post
Can one of you tell me if the back court rule for the 10 second count are the same for NCAA men's and women this year?
I.E.: I understand that only three situations prohibit a reset of the 10 second count: Ball OB (without having established FC status), Held ball (w/ no change of possession) and Technical foul on the offensive team.
What about a timeout by the offensive team?
Women's provides for a reset of the 10 second count - is this the same for men's?
Tried researching it online, and figured asking you would be faster and more educational!
Thanks!
NCAA-M: a timeout by the offensive team will buy Team A a new 10 count
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Old Sun Nov 15, 2015, 08:56am
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I believe this rule is the same.
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Old Mon Nov 16, 2015, 05:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlancaster View Post
Here's a question that came up at our association meeting recently.
We had an IAABO rules guru, one of the best, bring this up....

Team A has the ball in their front court. The ball is deflected by team B and rolls into A's backcourt.... And rolls a while before A picks it up. Team A runs back and retrieves the ball near the free throw line. When does the 10 second count for backcourt violation start? When team A gathers the ball or when the ball first touches the backcourt?

It was said the count starts as soon as the ball touches the backcourt because Team A still has team control of a ball inbounds, in their backcourt after the deflection. I have never seen anyone count in this situation.....until A picks up the ball. If they did it may help with the understanding that any foul by team A while the ball is rolling in the B/C is a team control foul. I normally would not start the count until the player from team A has control. I may have always been wrong..... I see nothing in the rules to support or deny this.

Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Crosscountry:

That is an excellent question. I will ask one of my friends that are still officiating college basketball.

MTD, Sr.

A former student of mine (he became an OhioHSAA basketball official when he took and passed my basketball officiating class many many years ago) and is now a Men's Div. I official told me that in the case of the OP the T is to use the Shot Clock for the new 10-Second Count.

MTD, Sr.
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Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Ump. Assn.
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Old Mon Nov 16, 2015, 10:41am
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Ncaa-w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
That guru was correct. Team control continues in NFHS and NCAA rules after a deflection by the defense, the ball gains backcourt status the moment it touches the floor in the backcourt, and a team can not have control of the ball in the backcourt for more than 10 seconds.
NCAA-W the new count in the backcourt does not start until the ball is touched. AR 211.
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Old Mon Nov 16, 2015, 11:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 View Post
NCAA-W the new count in the backcourt does not start until the ball is touched. AR 211.
I think you mean AR 221, and that's a different play (starting from a throw-in) from the OP (starting from the ball in-bounds)
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Old Mon Nov 16, 2015, 01:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I think you mean AR 221, and that's a different play (starting from a throw-in) from the OP (starting from the ball in-bounds)
Uh oh, I hope this doesn't lead us down a familiar road.
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Old Mon Nov 16, 2015, 01:53pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Uh oh, I hope this doesn't lead us down a familiar road.
That was FUNNY...
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