2015-16 IAABO Refresher Exam Question #22 ...

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I'm giving myself a headache. Let me ask anybody this…



The correctable error rule says we go to the POI unless it involves awarding a merited FT and there has been no change of team possession since the error. if no change of team possession then resume it like any other FT attempt.



The case play 2.10.1A, we all know, says team B securing the rebound and passing to a teammate constitutes no change in team possession. You go back and shoot the free throw with lane spaces occupied.



Let's say the play goes further and team A fouls team B after the teammate catches the pass. lets say team B is in the bonus. so in this example the ball is not going to go to team A. (they are not entitled to throw in or FT). The ball is going to stay with team B. Has there been a "change of team possession." If there hasn't, I'm not supposed to go to the POI? But if i don't i can't deal with the foul by A?



I know what I would do…I would have A shoot their extra FT with lane spaces cleared and then line all players up for B 1 and 1 and play on. If the case play is correct about not being a change in possession how do i get to my result. (which is going to POI in the end)

maybe I'm having a complete and total brain cramp...

I hate to admit it, but I would do the same thing. I don't have rules justification to cancel or ignore the foul on A, so in the spirit of administering penalties in the order in which the fouls occurred, I'd feel obliged to do it this way.

Makes me second guess what I'd do if B were NOT in the bonus.

Would be interesting to get an official NFHS interp on this.


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[BigCat]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I hate to admit it, but I would do the same thing. I don't have rules justification to cancel or ignore the foul on A, so in the spirit of administering penalties in the order in which the fouls occurred, I'd feel obliged to do it this way.

Makes me second guess what I'd do if B were NOT in the bonus.

Would be interesting to get an official NFHS interp on this.


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I don't think 2.10.1A can survive.

[Nevadaref]

You are both having difficulty with the administration because the Case Play is just wrong. If you accept that, then you won't have an issue.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are both having difficulty with the administration because the Case Play is just wrong. If you accept that, then you won't have an issue.

i was reluctant to say a play that had been in the case book for a number of years was wrong. Playing it out further as i did this morning proves to me that it is wrong. i wanted to see if i was missing anything.

i dont see any way to save it.

[gslefeb]

A1 is entitled to 2 free throws, after the first free throw the ball remains live. A4 rebounds and is fouled by B4. Team A is in the bonus.

Since there has been no change in possession. How is this administered?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

A1 is entitled to 2 free throws, after the first free throw the ball remains live. A4 rebounds and is fouled by B4. Team A is in the bonus.

Since there has been no change in possession. How is this administered?

That's a lot simpler. Shoot A1's free throw with the lane clear, then line everybody up for A4's one-and-one.

Of course, me, I'll say I was blowing my whistle to kill the play b/c we had another free throw to shoot.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That's a lot simpler. Shoot A1's free throw with the lane clear, then line everybody up for A4's one-and-one.

Of course, me, I'll say I was blowing my whistle to kill the play b/c we had another free throw to shoot.

The next question is how do we get here under the rules, to using the POI, when the rule says we dont use it if there isnt a change of possession?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

A1 is entitled to 2 free throws, after the first free throw the ball remains live. A4 rebounds and is fouled by B4. Team A is in the bonus.

Since there has been no change in possession. How is this administered?

Nevada, i would also go poi on this play as BNR said. authority for it would be 2-10-5...cant nullify additional activity (the foul). also set forth above by BNR. Do you agree? thx

[Refhoop]

Been following this thread and find it interesting!

It seems to me that any foul by team A is a team foul - if by rule, possession hasn't changed... There would be no consideration for team B to shoot free throws if any B player is fouled. All fouls by team A in the current situation would be team fouls (Team A still have possession).

Once the ball goes through the basket, we have a dead ball, so how can possession change?.
The fact that B1 grabbed the rebound and threw it up the floor doesn't mean team B had a "right" to possession.
Under normal circumstances of a made basket by A1... what if as the ball is passing through the hoop - A3 grabs the ball? Is that a change in possession?
Team B taking the ball, doesn't grant them possession - even if the official isn't aware of whats going on...
What say you!?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Nevada, i would also go poi on this play as BNR said. authority for it would be 2-10-5...cant nullify additional activity (the foul). also set forth above by BNR. Do you agree? thx

Yes, the new foul cannot be ignored.
The officials must award the second FT with the lane cleared and then resume with the bonus FTs for A4 with the lane spaces occupied.

I see the problem with the wording of the rule though. I would alter it by inserting "and no foul or violation" between "possession" and "since."