The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #46 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 12, 2015, 01:52pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Is there anything about ignoring the foul unless it's flagrant?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Only if the activity actually occurs during the erroneously awarded free throw. I've been part of a crew where we stretched that time frame to the rebounding activity after the free throw ended.

2-10 ART. 4

If the error is a free throw by the wrong player or at the wrong basket, or the awarding of an unmerited free throw, the free throw and the *activity during it, other than unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls, shall be canceled.

2-10 ART. 5

Points scored, consumed time and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error, shall not be nullified...
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #47 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 12, 2015, 01:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Is there anything about ignoring the foul unless it's flagrant?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Not in this situation. See 2-10 and the differences between "awarding an unmerited FT" and "failing to award a merited FT."
Reply With Quote
  #48 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 12, 2015, 01:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Is there anything about ignoring the foul unless it's flagrant?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
if its a Ft by wrong player, at wrong basket or unmerited FT "the activity during it is cancelled unless intentional, flagrant etc…
Reply With Quote
  #49 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 12, 2015, 02:33pm
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Not in this situation. See 2-10 and the differences between "awarding an unmerited FT" and "failing to award a merited FT."
I'm at work. Had to poke my nose in here before going home later.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #50 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 12, 2015, 07:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by gslefeb View Post
A1 is entitled to 2 free throws, after the first free throw the ball remains live. A4 rebounds and is fouled by B4. Team A is in the bonus.

Since there has been no change in possession. How is this administered?
Nevada, i would also go poi on this play as BNR said. authority for it would be 2-10-5...cant nullify additional activity (the foul). also set forth above by BNR. Do you agree? thx
Reply With Quote
  #51 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 12, 2015, 11:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 127
Been following this thread and find it interesting!

It seems to me that any foul by team A is a team foul - if by rule, possession hasn't changed... There would be no consideration for team B to shoot free throws if any B player is fouled. All fouls by team A in the current situation would be team fouls (Team A still have possession).

Once the ball goes through the basket, we have a dead ball, so how can possession change?.
The fact that B1 grabbed the rebound and threw it up the floor doesn't mean team B had a "right" to possession.
Under normal circumstances of a made basket by A1... what if as the ball is passing through the hoop - A3 grabs the ball? Is that a change in possession?
Team B taking the ball, doesn't grant them possession - even if the official isn't aware of whats going on...
What say you!?
Reply With Quote
  #52 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 12, 2015, 11:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
Nevada, i would also go poi on this play as BNR said. authority for it would be 2-10-5...cant nullify additional activity (the foul). also set forth above by BNR. Do you agree? thx
Yes, the new foul cannot be ignored.
The officials must award the second FT with the lane cleared and then resume with the bonus FTs for A4 with the lane spaces occupied.

I see the problem with the wording of the rule though. I would alter it by inserting "and no foul or violation" between "possession" and "since."

Last edited by Nevadaref; Fri Nov 13, 2015 at 12:00am.
Reply With Quote
  #53 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 13, 2015, 07:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I see the problem with the wording of the rule though. I would alter it by inserting "and no foul or violation" between "possession" and "since."

I love that idea.

I would still not change 2.10.1A, but it could be expanded to include scenarios where the ball became dead due to a violation or foul after B got the rebound, as opposed to just the situation where B got the rebound and either the officials subsequently stopped play or B called a timeout.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #54 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 16, 2015, 01:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I'll consult my previous rules and case books for the exact year the dubious case play appeared.

Meanwhile, I will disagree with your defense of the ruling in that Case Play. Let me put forth my understanding of how this should work. Since we agree with the premise that a team being entitled to a throw-in or FT constitutes team possession for CE purposes, this should make sense to you.

At the time of the error, which is incorrectly permitting the ball to remain live following the first FT, Team A is entitled to another FT. That means that when Team B rebounds the miss, team possession has now switched from Team A (entitled to FT) to Team B (grabbed the rebound). Therefore, the POI should be used to resume and Team B should be awarded a throw-in near the division line.
Since we have determined that fouls (other than article 4) go to the POI under 2-10-5 it brings me back to the question of 2.10.1A's validity. The play has been around a number of years and contains an emphatic statement, "team B securing rebound and passing…constitutes no change in team possession."

The CE case plays show that "change of possession" under 2-10-6 is determined by regular team/player control rules and POI principles. After a made basket, held ball when the arrow favors the defense, a turnover by the offense…there is a "change of possession" under 2-10-6 even though the other team does not have the ball at their disposal or control. Not only is the other team "entitled" to the ball in the plays, the throw-in IS the next thing that would happen. (POI).

On the front end of the play the error is allowing the ball to remain live. Team A might be "entitled" to another FT but not stopping the game is the error. The "possession" was skipped. There's no basis under regular player/team control rules/POI principles to say simply being "entitled" to another FT IS a possession. The team control/POI principles tell us neither team is in control at the time of the error. When they are talking about "change of possession since the error" I believe they are talking about the action that is actually taking place on the court. Not what was supposed to happen. We are trying to figure out how to get the ball back in play. That's a team control/poi issue.

Correctable errors are bad. I really don't have a personal preference on how the error is corrected. However, I see this case play that has been around and I see a rules basis for it. thx

Last edited by BigCat; Mon Nov 16, 2015 at 01:31pm.
Reply With Quote
  #55 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 28, 2015, 11:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3
Question Question 22

My answer is no. What is the correct answer?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IAABO Refresher Exam Question #5 ... BillyMac Basketball 5 Fri Nov 07, 2014 08:44am
IAABO Refresher Exam Question #33 ... BillyMac Basketball 7 Fri Nov 07, 2014 01:33am
IAABO Refresher Exam Question #57 ... BillyMac Basketball 0 Wed Nov 05, 2014 05:48pm
2011 IAABO Refresher Exam - Question 66 ... BillyMac Basketball 4 Wed Dec 07, 2011 07:37pm
IAABO Refresher Exam Question 25 ken roberts Basketball 6 Wed Oct 27, 1999 08:43pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:54am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1