time to remove from the clock

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

You're right, it does come up every year. And I hate this '09-'10 interpretation because if it was so important (and certainly the kinds of issues presented in both the interp and the OP are entirely plausible and common), the NFHS would figure out a way to fit it into the case book. I can think of plenty far more useless case plays in the case book that could be removed to make room.

So my deduction is that the NFHS probably regrets creating this interp in the first place. The subjectivity of "likely tenths of a second" is contrary to the objective standard of "definite knowledge."

Then they should re-issue the interp with "do not take any time off" -- I seem to recall some changes like that (on different issues) in the past -- but I 'm not going to go looking for them.

I work with a women's college official (also one of my assignors) who absolutely insists on taking off .3 seconds in this situation where the ball was touched out of bounds and no time came off.

I have never taken time off arbitrarily like that but I am considering starting to do so. It seems like the right thing to do, and is not explicitly outlawed by rule.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I work with a women's college official (also one of my assignors) who absolutely insists on taking off .3 seconds in this situation where the ball was touched out of bounds and no time came off.

I have never taken time off arbitrarily like that but I am considering starting to do so. It seems like the right thing to do, and is not explicitly outlawed by rule.

What if the time taken was actually less then 0.3?

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What if the time taken was actually less then 0.3?

0.3 is the rule of thumb for the other guy, I would be taking off what I estimated to be appropriate, not necessarily 0.3 each time. Could be anywhere from 0.1 to 0.9.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I work with a women's college official (also one of my assignors) who absolutely insists on taking off .3 seconds in this situation where the ball was touched out of bounds and no time came off.

I have never taken time off arbitrarily like that but I am considering starting to do so. It seems like the right thing to do, and is not explicitly outlawed by rule.

Don't let video of that guy - or you - doing this get back to the SRE. He won't be pleased because there's no rule support for it (I can already envision the Central Hub post). If you're working a monitor game you can use that if it's authorized by rule. If not - and you don't have definite knowledge - just let it be.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Don't let video of that guy - or you - doing this get back to the SRE. He won't be pleased because there's no rule support for it (I can already envision the Central Hub post). If you're working a monitor game you can use that if it's authorized by rule. If not - and you don't have definite knowledge - just let it be.

Unless you work for a supervisor who says he wants a minimum amount of time taken off the clock in those situations. I have one of those supervisors.

However, I think Arem is stepping off the plank if he thinks he can differentiate between 0.1 and 0.9.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I can't. I may not have definite knowledge of exactly how much to take off but I do know something should have come off. I may not be able to count in tenths of a second but I would be using my good judgement in how much time to take off. I'm tired of having to explain to visiting coaches that the home timer is not against them and I can't take time off even though I know some should have come off. This is not to say that I am easily swayed and pander to what coaches want, but I believe what I'm suggesting is probably ok given I have definite knowledge some time should have come off and 2-3 to cover how much time I decide to take off.

Before you tip me remember this is something I am considering, I'm trying to hear arguments against it.

My tip is the first sentence in my post that you didn't include when you quoted me.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

However, I think Arem is stepping off the plank if he thinks he can differentiate between 0.1 and 0.9.

I can't. I may not have definite knowledge of exactly how much to take off but I do know something should have come off. I may not be able to count in tenths of a second but I would be using my good judgement in how much time to take off. I'm tired of having to explain to visiting coaches that the home timer is not against them and I can't take time off even though I know some should have come off. This is not to say that I am easily swayed and pander to what coaches want, but I believe what I'm suggesting is probably ok given I have definite knowledge some time should have come off and 2-3 to cover how much time I decide to take off.

Remember this is something I am considering, I'm trying to hear arguments against it.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My tip is the first sentence in my post that you didn't include when you quoted me.

Yeah I saw that. My problem is my HS association is more concerned about putting out memos on uniform regulations and using the "high school" blocking foul signal. State rules interpreters ate almost nonexistent and no one uses them anyway. So it is up to me to interpret the NFHS rules for myself.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I can't. I may not have definite knowledge of exactly how much to take off but I do know something should have come off. I may not be able to count in tenths of a second but I would be using my good judgement in how much time to take off..

I hope you can tell the difference between 0.1 and 0.9 seconds. If you can't then your 5 counts must vary between 3 and 25 seconds.

Not 0.1 vs 0.2, sure, that level of accuracy is probably beyond just about everyone. But accuracy is not required. If you get to 3 in a 5 count and have to use that to take off time, you could easily be anything 2.7 or 3.5 in reality, but that is good enough. It is definite even if it isn't accurate or precise.

And it isn't hard to get partial seconds to a reasonable level of accuracy. I think all of us have counted with Mississippi's or similar....

One - thou - sand - one, One - thou - sand -two, etc.

Each syllable is a quarter second. You get through two syllables, you've got 0.5 seconds. You get only one, you have 0.2 or 0.3. If you're in mid-syllable, go with the shorter time.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I hope you can tell the difference between 0.1 and 0.9 seconds. If you can't then your 5 counts must vary between 3 and 25 seconds.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Here is what I was commenting on.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

However, I think Arem is stepping off the plank if he thinks he can differentiate between 0.1 and 0.9.

Originally Posted by AremRed

I can't. I may not have definite knowledge of exactly how much to take off but I do know something should have come off. I may not be able to count in tenths of a second but I would be using my good judgement in how much time to take off.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I hope you can tell the difference between 0.1 and 0.9 seconds. If you can't then your 5 counts must vary between 3 and 25 seconds.

I bet you can tell the difference between 0.1 and 0.9 seconds. You said you can't but then you say you can use your good judgement to know how much. Either you can or you can't and I would bet that you would be pretty close and easily be able to tell the difference between 0.1 and 0.9. If not, your sense of time would be so out of whack that all of your counts would be completely off.