NCAA-M New Rules Thread

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Does the NCAA-W rule read same or similar? As i said earlier, the offense should be able to buy a new count with a timeout but that isnt what the rule says. i cant read the new rule and determine/extrapolate etc that a timeout gives a new count. the wording doesnt support it. they need to add another sentence.

The NCAAW SRE has said any rules that are identical under both codes will be worded the same in both rule books to avoid confusion. He and Art Hyland went over those situations during the summer when everything was being written.

As for the time-out/ten-second count reset: Any time-out granted to Team A results in a new ten-second count. We were told the rules committee felt if a team wants to burn one of its time-outs to prevent/reduce the chance of a violation, let 'em...especially since teams have one less time-out this season.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The NCAAW SRE has said any rules that are identical under both codes will be worded the same in both rule books to avoid confusion. He and Art Hyland went over those situations during the summer when everything was being written.

As for the time-out/ten-second count reset: Any time-out granted to Team A results in a new ten-second count. We were told the rules committee felt if a team wants to burn one of its time-outs to prevent/reduce the chance of a violation, let 'em...especially since teams have one less time-out this season.

I just wish they would have explicitly spelled that out in a case play. There is nothing in writing that tells us to reset the 10-second count if the offensive team calls a time-out when the ball is dead.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I just wish they would have explicitly spelled that out in a case play. There is nothing in writing that tells us to reset the 10-second count if the offensive team calls a time-out when the ball is dead.

Knowing the NCAAW SRE and his efforts to streamline the rule books, my guess is it wasn't specified because of this...

Originally Posted by BigCat

The 10-second count shall be reset on all stoppages of the game clock except when the defense causes the ball to be out of bounds, the offense retains the possession after a held ball, or there is a technical foul assessed against the offensive team.

A time-out granted to Team A stops the clock and it's not one of the three reasons we won't reset, so it's a reset. It's one of those cases where the rule book says do X unless A, B or C happens. Neither A, B nor C happened, so do X.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Knowing the NCAAW SRE and his efforts to streamline the rule books, my guess is it wasn't specified because of this...



A time-out granted to Team A stops the clock and it's not one of the three reasons we won't reset, so it's a reset. It's one of those cases where the rule book says do X unless A, B or C happens. Neither A, B nor C happened, so do X.

If the time out is called while the ball is still alive then it is clearly supported by rule to reset the count. The timeout caused the stoppage. The play i'm thinking of, and likely BNR also, is if the defense knocks the ball out of bounds. That is the reason for the clock stoppage. Under the rule as written, there should not be a reset of the count. There isn't anything in the rule to say that the offense can use a timeout at that time to get a new count.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Knowing the NCAAW SRE and his efforts to streamline the rule books, my guess is it wasn't specified because of this...



A time-out granted to Team A stops the clock and it's not one of the three reasons we won't reset, so it's a reset. It's one of those cases where the rule book says do X unless A, B or C happens. Neither A, B nor C happened, so do X.

You didn't read my post carefully enough:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I just wish they would have explicitly spelled that out in a case play. There is nothing in writing that tells us to reset the 10-second count if the offensive team calls a time-out when the ball is dead.

Maybe Jon will be in Arlington this weekend and I can ask him for an official answer, since Men's and Women's are using the same new rule. If Jon is not there, I always have the option of asking Al Battista.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If the time out is called while the ball is still alive then it is clearly supported by rule to reset the count. The timeout caused the stoppage. The play i'm thinking of, and likely BNR also, is if the defense knocks the ball out of bounds. That is the reason for the clock stoppage. Under the rule as written, there should not be a reset of the count. There isn't anything in the rule to say that the offense can use a timeout at that time to get a new count.

When does the timeout occur? It occurs AFTER the defense has knocked the ball OOB. So, when the defense knocks it OOB, the count doesn't reset (yet). But, when the offensive team calls a timeout, it then resets the count as timeouts called by the offensive team do. There is (presumably since I have not actually read the rule) no qualification that the timeout be called with the clock running in order for the timeout to reset the count.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

When does the timeout occur? It occurs AFTER the defense has knocked the ball OOB. So, when the defense knocks it OOB, the count doesn't reset (yet). But, when the offensive team calls a timeout, it then resets the count as timeouts called by the offensive team do. There is (presumably since I have not actually read the rule) no qualification that the timeout be called with the clock running in order for the timeout to reset the count.

Take a look at the rule. It is set out somewhere above. The wording says reset the count unless the clock stoppage is from defense knocking it out etc. the wording says the event which causes the clock stoppage controls.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Take a look at the rule. It is set out somewhere above. The wording says reset the count unless the clock stoppage is from defense knocking it out etc. the wording says the event which causes the clock stoppage controls.

That is correct. But when something else happens later that has other consequences, it takes precedent.

This is not unlike when the penalty for an infraction indicates that a team shall get a throwin but they commit a technical foul before they get the throwin. You move on to the next event and how it is defined.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That is correct. But when something else happens later that has other consequences, it takes precedent.

This is not unlike when the penalty for an infraction indicates that a team shall get a throwin but they commit a technical foul before they get the throwin. You move on to the next event and how it is defined.

The rule says if the clock is stopped because the defense knocks the ball out of bounds there is no reset of the shot clock. That is all it says. If the count is at 8 and defense knocks it out of bounds then offense has 2 to get it across. That is what the rule says. There is nothing written anywhere in the rules which says a timeout by the offense after the ball is knocked out by the defense gives a new count. Should it? yes. but that is not what the rule says.

If the stoppage is from defense knocking ball out dont reset clock. If somoebody else fouls after the ball is out of bounds then you are right about subsequent acts taking precedence. there's nothing saying a timeout has that effect...

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The rule says if the clock is stopped because the defense knocks the ball out of bounds there is no reset of the shot clock. That is all it says. If the count is at 8 and defense knocks it out of bounds then offense has 2 to get it across. That is what the rule says. There is nothing written anywhere in the rules which says a timeout by the offense after the ball is knocked out by the defense gives a new count. Should it? yes. but that is not what the rule says.

If the stoppage is from defense knocking ball out dont reset clock. If somoebody else fouls after the ball is out of bounds then you are right about subsequent acts taking precedence. there's nothing saying a timeout has that effect...

I agree with all of this. The way the rule is written states that the action that causes the clock to stop determines whether or not the 10 second count is reset. In the example we are discussing, the timeout does not cause the game clock to stop. It is already stopped because of the OOB.

I think we will learn the intent is to allow the timeout to reset the 10 second count, but the confusion before any official clarification comes out is legitimate. There should be a case play or more accurate wording in the rule itself.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You didn't read my post carefully enough:

Maybe Jon will be in Arlington this weekend and I can ask him for an official answer, since Men's and Women's are using the same new rule. If Jon is not there, I always have the option of asking Al Battista.

Sorry about that, BNR. I see the difference. Jon has said any timeout by the team in control - regardless of whether the clock is running - resets the 10-second count. Today was my first chance to look at the rule book. I heard it so often during the summer I'm surprised that element isn't in there.

[cmcramer]

Deva vu all over again....

From my post 9 years ago......

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...nder-move.html

My situation had A1 stepping forward, up and under move, not "sideways" as mentioned in this thread....

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

Deva vu all over again....

From my post 9 years ago......

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...nder-move.html

My situation had A1 stepping forward, up and under move, not "sideways" as mentioned in this thread....

Classic Jurassic thread.

Also had a reply from a future and current NBA ref.

[Multiple Sports]

Anyway that one of the administrators van put up the questions to the test of this thread for all of us to go over. I realize that they may be numbered differently on each exam ( my #2 might be your #18 )......just curious