NCAA-M New Rules Thread

[Raymond]

NCAA-Men's

Rule 4-38 is going to be fun. Here is what the preface says:

"This rule change clarifies that an offensive player also has verticality rights and must be given enough space by the defender to make a normal basketball move"

We also now have 4-17.6.e & A.R. 89. Shooters can no longer move into the path of a forward-moving airborne defender to draw a foul.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

NCAA-Men's



We also now have 4-17.6.e & A.R. 89. Shooters can no longer move into the path of a forward-moving airborne defender to draw a foul.

I read AR 89 as saying when A1 pump fakes B1 into the air (B1 is moving forward) then A1 jumps forward and makes contact with B1, in the air, the foul is on B1 for not maintaining LGP. verticality. in the second situation B1 goes straight up and when A1 jumps into B1 its nothing or a foul on A1.

Maybe I'm missing something....

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I read AR 89 as saying when A1 pump fakes B1 into the air (B1 is moving forward) then A1 jumps forward and makes contact with B1, in the air, the foul is on B1 for not maintaining LGP. verticality. in the second situation B1 goes straight up and when A1 jumps into B1 its nothing or a foul on A1.

Maybe I'm missing something....

A1 pump fakes. B1 jumps forward but is in a path that will keep him clear of A1. A1 then jumps into B1's path to attempt the shot.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A1 pump fakes. B1 jumps forward but is in a path that keep him clear of A1. A1 then jumps into B1's path to attempt the shot.

OK. I thought you were citing AR 89 in support of your comment. This play is different than AR 89. I guess a better way for me to say it is I would not reach that conclusion just from reading AR 89. thx

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BigCat

OK. I thought you were citing AR 89 in support of your comment. This play is a little than AR 89. thx

Did you read the entire approved ruling?

A.R. 89 does support my comment. The grey highlighted area for A.R. 89.2 does not reference a defender jumping straight up, it references a defender jumping forward.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Did you read the entire approved ruling?

A.R. 89 does support my comment. The grey highlighted area for A.R. 89.2 does not reference a defender jumping straight up, it references a defender jumping forward.

I downloaded case book today at NCAA publications. My AR 89 says: A1 tries a pump fake and DEFENDER B1, who is in legal guarding position:

1. Jumps forward into the air and A1 then jumps forward and makes contact with B1 in the air.

2. Jumps straight up in the air and A1 then jumps forward and makes contact with B1 in the air.

Number 1 has the defender jumping forward and number 2 has defender jumping straight up. Do I have a different book......

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

NCAA-Men's

Rule 4-38 is going to be fun. Here is what the preface says:

"This rule change clarifies that an offensive player also has verticality rights and must be given enough space by the defender to make a normal basketball move"

They should have included pictures/drawings for 4-38…. I havnt had a meeting yet or looked at any video but pretty obvious they want space between players. Likely directed at the defender who tries to get in someone's grill... getting more flow/freedom of movement..4-38-1c needs a picture...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

They should have included pictures/drawings for 4-38…. I havnt had a meeting yet or looked at any video but pretty obvious they want space between players. Likely directed at the defender who tries to get in someone's grill... getting more flow/freedom of movement..4-38-1c needs a picture...

Is this going to be the "get out of my way" rule?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Is this going to be the "get out of my way" rule?

I'll have to get back to you..im still trying to figure out the diameter of the cylinder they are trying to describe--- I can see the situation when the offense is holding the ball and defense gets soooo close. offense can't move….maybe the "get back" rule.

[potato]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

NCAA-Men's

Rule 4-38 is going to be fun. Here is what the preface says:

"This rule change clarifies that an offensive player also has verticality rights and must be given enough space by the defender to make a normal basketball move"

We also now have 4-17.6.e & A.R. 89. Shooters can no longer move into the path of a forward-moving airborne defender to draw a foul.

this is fair to prevent Shooters from claiming cheap fouls on the faked defender, but you will expect alot more collision when driving towards the basket, defenders will simply jump into the path of the ball handler in advance knowing he will get away with the foul. And what decides whether a shooter is moving into the path, does it mean the shooter has to jump before the defender does, or simply imply that shooter has to reach that air space before the defender does irregardless who jumped 1st.

Originally Posted by potato

this is fair to prevent Shooters from claiming cheap fouls on the faked defender, but you will expect alot more collision when driving towards the basket, defenders will simply jump into the path of the ball handler in advance knowing he will get away with the foul. And what decides whether a shooter is moving into the path, does it mean the shooter has to jump before the defender does, or simply imply that shooter has to reach that air space before the defender does irregardless who jumped 1st.

Not sure I understand your point....could you draw us a diagram please?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

this is fair to prevent Shooters from claiming cheap fouls on the faked defender, but you will expect alot more collision when driving towards the basket, defenders will simply jump into the path of the ball handler in advance knowing he will get away with the foul. And what decides whether a shooter is moving into the path, does it mean the shooter has to jump before the defender does, or simply imply that shooter has to reach that air space before the defender does irregardless who jumped 1st.

Please read the following:

Originally Posted by APG

A.R. 89. A1 tries a pump fake and defender B1, who is in legal guarding
position:

1. Jumps forward into the air and A1 then jumps forward and makes contact with B1 in the air; or

2. Jumps straight up in the air and A1 then jumps forward and makes contact with B1 in the air.

RULING 1: Even though B1 established legal guarding position on the floor, his jump forward and toward A1 is not a legal attempt to maintain legal guarding position so that any non-incidental contact with A1 is a personal foul on B1. However, if B1’s jump forward is in a direction that he clearly would not have made contact with the shooter, and the shooter moves sideways to cause the contact, B1 has not committed a personal foul. (Rule 4-17.6.e)

2: B1 has again established initial legal guarding position and his jump into the air is a legal attempt to maintain legal guarding position as long as the jump is within B1’s own vertical plane. Any subsequent contact by A1 jumping forward and into B1 is either a personal foul on A1 or incidental contact. (Rule 4-17.6.e)

Bolded portion is the new part of the case book play

Originally Posted by APG

Just showing what levels of play above NF are saying about this play:

NBA (2014-2015) Case Book:

262. Offensive Player A1 pump fakes a 3-point field goal attempt and Defender B1 clearly jumps/runs to the side of A1 and would not make any contact. Player A1 jumps sideways and initiates contact with Defender B1. How is this handled?

Since Defender B1 was not going to contact Player A1, a foul cannot be called on him assuming he did not reach over and hit his opponent. If the contact by A1 is marginal, meaning it did not affect B1’s ability to continue play, no foul has occurred. If the contact initiated by A1 is more than marginal, an offensive foul shall be assessed.

RULE 12B - SECTION VII

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by potato

this is fair to prevent Shooters from claiming cheap fouls on the faked defender, but you will expect alot more collision when driving towards the basket, defenders will simply jump into the path of the ball handler in advance knowing he will get away with the foul. And what decides whether a shooter is moving into the path, does it mean the shooter has to jump before the defender does, or simply imply that shooter has to reach that air space before the defender does irregardless who jumped 1st.

It is about when A1 goes in a direction that A1 was not previously going and has not realistic reason to go simply to create contact. If A1 is already driving down the lane and B1 jumps in the path, B1 must meet all the rules of LGP to not be called for a block since A1 had already established that path.

[Raymond]

Reset for 10 second B/C count except for:

a) defense causing ball to OOB in B/C.
b) technical foul of offense
c) held ball in B/C and offense retains possession.

So, should there be a reset of 10 second B/C count if:

1) after ball is dead and clock is stopped, offense is granted a time-out?
2) there is a double foul or a double technical foul?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Reset for 10 second B/C count except for:

a) defense causing ball to OOB in B/C.
b) technical foul of offense
c) held ball in B/C and offense retains possession.

So, should there be a reset of 10 second B/C count if:

1) after ball is dead and clock is stopped, offense is granted a time-out?
2) there is a double foul or a double technical foul?

Here's the actual wording:

The 10-second count shall be reset on all stoppages of the game clock except when the defense causes the ball to be out of bounds, the offense retains the possession after a held ball, or there is a technical foul assessed against the offensive team�

The wording of the rule says the reason for the clock stoppage controls (rightly or wrongly).
1. If the clock stoppage was from defense knocking ball out then the wording of the rule says don't reset the clock. The rule doesn't say offense can buy a new count with the timeout. I think they should be able to but that isn't what it says. Apparently, they will have to throw the ball in and then call the timeout to get a new count…if needed.

2. Double foul isn't listed so reset the count. Double tech isn't listed so also reset the count. In both of those situations the defense is also doing something wrong so reset the count. (i realize in a double tech situation a technical foul is being "assessed against the offensive team" as mentioned in the rule but i think the double situation changes it. If they wanted double techs to prevent a reset of the clock they would have included double fouls.)

This is what i get from reading the rule--they may change/clarify/interp. They may have just overlooked situations.