Illegal Screen Study #2

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The Lead rotating shouldn't force the C to step out. The C was too high in the first place. If he had been where he was supposed to be he would have seen the illegal screen.

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Eh, not really. FTLE is just the home position. A step or two above or below to see a play properly is okay. IMO he was where he needed to be to see the contact since it took place near the top of the 3-point arc. He just didn't put a whistle on it.

[BigCat]

I think C is too high the entire time also. However, I dont think it has anything to do with him not calling the foul. Sometimes guys see it and just dont blow the whistle. I think the screen is set a few feet past the lane line extended area. Clearly C area. I dont want T calling it from where he is at. He could have stepped out and over to keep a count and then perhaps gotten it. Ultimately, there's nothing really else happening in C area. He has to make this call.

Refereeing's hard. It happens...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I dont want T calling it from where he is at. He could have stepped out and over to keep a count and then perhaps gotten it. Ultimately, there's nothing really else happening in C area. He has to make this call.

Refereeing's hard. It happens...

He did have a continuing count as the dribbler/ball went across the court.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

He did have a continuing count as the dribbler/ball went across the court.

yes, i know he had a count. He was too close to the sideline to make a foul call way over there IMO.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Eh, not really. FTLE is just the home position. A step or two above or below to see a play properly is okay. IMO he was where he needed to be to see the contact since it took place near the top of the 3-point arc. He just didn't put a whistle on it.

He was moving when the contact occurred. There was no reason for the high C on that play. If he had stayed home position he sees the screener coming before the contact.

Stay at home in the C, don't look for reason to move towards the division line.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He was moving when the contact occurred. There was no reason for the high C on that play. If he had stayed home position he sees the screener coming before the contact.

Stay at home in the C, don't look for reason to move towards the division line.

He just had another screening situation 2 seconds before that called for some movement towards the division line. If he didn't move for that one he wouldn't have been able to see between the players. If he's at FTLE for the second one he's going to be looking at the screener's back and may not be able to determine if there was contact. As a general rule, fouls take place in the space between players. Moving back towards the home position sure didn't help him see that space in this case.

Originally Posted by BigCat

I dont want T calling it from where he is at. He could have stepped out and over to keep a count and then perhaps gotten it. Ultimately, there's nothing really else happening in C area. He has to make this call.

As Camron pointed out, the T kept his count going. That's even more reason that the T could've gotten it a bit late. The count meant he was still engaged in the play.

As to "nothing else happening" in the C's area, I disagree. At the moment that contact takes place there are 8 players in the C's PCA. One is in the L's PCA and the other is in the T's PCA, though he still has the closely-guarded count going. That's a lot more than nothing, which is why I commented earlier on the lack of rotation by the L.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

He just had another screening situation 2 seconds before that called for some movement towards the division line. If he didn't move for that one he wouldn't have been able to see between the players. If he's at FTLE for the second one he's going to be looking at the screener's back and may not be able to determine if there was contact. As a general rule, fouls take place in the space between players. Moving back towards the home position sure didn't help him see that space in this case.




As Camron pointed out, the T kept his count going. That's even more reason that the T could've gotten it a bit late. The count meant he was still engaged in the play.

As to "nothing else happening" in the C's area, I disagree. At the moment that contact takes place there are 8 players in the C's PCA. One is in the L's PCA and the other is in the T's PCA, though he still has the closely-guarded count going. That's a lot more than nothing, which is why I commented earlier on the lack of rotation by the L.

I know T had a count and had a reason to be looking in the other area. I would have like to have seen him take a few steps toward half line and over away from his sideline while counting. Then if he has to make the call late he isnt so far away.

I didnt analyze the video in depth etc but I recall an offensive player simply standing in the dead corner. There are some other players standing and the 4 involved on the ball in his area. I think the C needs to know when the ball enters his area and take it. I agree lead could have helped him.

In this play the foul was obvious enough for the T to help but it wont always be that clear. Sometimes the C has the only view of contact. What may have happened, as said before by someone, was C continues to look off ball because he knows T has a count or thinks T will call it. thx

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

He just had another screening situation 2 seconds before that called for some movement towards the division line. If he didn't move for that one he wouldn't have been able to see between the players. If he's at FTLE for the second one he's going to be looking at the screener's back and may not be able to determine if there was contact. As a general rule, fouls take place in the space between players. Moving back towards the home position sure didn't help him see that space in this case.

....

Not only is he too high, but he was also on to the court for no reason. If he stays at home base at C, all he has to do is take one step up along the sideline as the screener comes up to maintain an angle to see the contract.

His sloppy positioning at the C led to all the problems on this play. The Trail is still on ball and doesn't need help yet with that aspect of the play. The C had absolutely no reason at all to be in the position he was in when the video begins.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not only is he too high, but he was also on to the court for no reason. If he stays at home base at C, all he has to do is take one step up along the sideline as the screener comes up to maintain an angle to see the contract.

His sloppy positioning at the C led to all the problems on this play. The Trail is still on ball and doesn't need help yet with that aspect of the play. The C had absolutely no reason at all to be in the position he was in when the video begins.

Sloppy is a bit harsh. He probably went where he felt he needed to go to see between the players, which is rarely a bad option. As to being off the sideline, he's not 2-3 steps onto the court. His heels aren't on the sideline. That's not horrible, especially since there isn't a great deal of room between the boundary and the bench.

Originally Posted by johnny d

I didn't look at the video, so I cannot comment on this particular play. However, as a general rule, just because there are players, even a significant number of them, in a particular area does not mean there is anything going on. Perhaps, none of the 8 players were involved in a competitive matchup.

They all weren't competitive but that doesn't mean he wouldn't notice his side of the court was getting rather crowded. If that's me, I know I would've been thinking, "L come over...L come over." He may even have moved up in anticipation of the L coming over - thus making him the new T. There's a lot of stuff going on his 1/3 of the world. Not to say the call shouldn't have been made but it's not as though the second screen was the only thing on his mind.

[Camron Rust]

Positioning, whether it was great or not isn't why he missed this play. No matter how good of a position you get, you can't get the call if you aren't looking at the right area in time. He seemed to be watching the previous action...a screen for cutter and the defender that was trying to keep up with him (a legitimate thing to be watching) and he turned is head to the play of interest just as the screen was happening....too late to know how the contact developed. This is even more a reason for the L to have come across as there ended up being more than 1 matchup for C to look at.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Sloppy is a bit harsh. He probably went where he felt he needed to go to see between the players, which is rarely a bad option. As to being off the sideline, he's not 2-3 steps onto the court. His heels aren't on the sideline. That's not horrible, especially since there isn't a great deal of room between the boundary and the bench.
...

He steps up and on to the court and turns at an angle, creating tunnel vision, to look back down into the paint at 3 defenders doing nothing. If he stays flat to the sideline and FTLE extended he maintains a wide open view. A1/B1 would come into his left peripheral and he would be looking right at A2 and see his potential screen.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

As to "nothing else happening" in the C's area, I disagree. At the moment that contact takes place there are 8 players in the C's PCA. One is in the L's PCA and the other is in the T's PCA, though he still has the closely-guarded count going. That's a lot more than nothing, which is why I commented earlier on the lack of rotation by the L.

I didn't look at the video, so I cannot comment on this particular play. However, as a general rule, just because there are players, even a significant number of them, in a particular area does not mean there is anything going on. Perhaps, none of the 8 players were involved in a competitive matchup.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I didn't look at the video, so I cannot comment on this particular play. However, as a general rule, just because there are players, even a significant number of them, in a particular area does not mean there is anything going on. Perhaps, none of the 8 players were involved in a competitive matchup.

You are correct, there were no active matchups for him to cover. His focus should have been on A2 as it was obvious he was prepping to set a screen.