Illegal Screen Study #2

[Freddy]

The comments and analyses from those who critiqued the previously posted possible illegal screen were really very insightful and enabling. What the official at C viewed in that video said about it will be posted in that thread shortly.

Here's another one that was, coincidentally, in the same gym involving the same official. The question for this clip, slightly different than the last one, is this: What did which official miss and, more importantly, why?

What Did Which Official Miss, and Why?

[Camron Rust]

Yes, it is an illegal screen. Unlike the other play where an argument can be made for not calling it since it was away from the play, this one should be called. The screener never got into a position for a legal screen and was no where near giving proper time/distance. It freed up the dribbler, thus the advantage was realized.

The C missed the call because he didn't pick up the screener in time. He was focused off ball too long with the play coming into his lap.

That said, there is no reason the T shouldn't be able to make that call.

Maybe both were expecting the other to make that call.

[JetMetFan]

1. Illegal

2. Who missed what? It's in the C's primary and it's his call. Odd that he missed it because he'd just (correctly) no-called a screening situation involving a different defender in Black, then the play moves towards him with B#3 guarding A#25. I would say C tried to accept the play involving the BH/D too soon instead of staying with the competitive match-up in his PCA.

3. T could have made the call but my guess is he saw B#3's right forearm come out and started to think, "Should I call him for and arm-bar?" (IMO, yes). While considering that play the screening situation may have surprised him and he may have thought, "Gee, I hope the C gets that one because I'm not sure."

Oh...not that he was involved in the call but L should have been in rotation while the ball was moving tableside. Right when the arm-bar dilemma takes place there are two players in L's PCA. Both of them are defenders. Meantime, he's still in the "A" position and is showing little sign of moving. Even if he's in close down he may not get to the "C" position fast enough to force C out to T but it might have helped.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

1. Illegal

2. Who missed what? It's in the C's primary and it's his call. Odd that he missed it because he'd just (correctly) no-called a screening situation involving a different defender in Black, then the play moves towards him with B#3 guarding A#25. I would say C tried to accept the play involving the BH/D too soon instead of staying with the competitive match-up in his PCA.

3. T could have made the call but my guess is he saw B#3's right forearm come out and started to think, "Should I call him for and arm-bar?" (IMO, yes). While considering that play the screening situation may have surprised him and he may have thought, "Gee, I hope the C gets that one because I'm not sure."

Oh...not that he was involved in the call but L should have been in rotation while the ball was moving tableside. Right when the arm-bar dilemma takes place there are two players in L's PCA. Both of them are defenders. Meantime, he's still in the "A" position and is showing little sign of moving. Even if he's in close down he may not get to the "C" position fast enough to force C out to T but it might have helped.

The Lead rotating shouldn't force the C to step out. The C was too high in the first place. If he had been where he was supposed to be he would have seen the illegal screen.

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[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The Lead rotating shouldn't force the C to step out. The C was too high in the first place. If he had been where he was supposed to be he would have seen the illegal screen.

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Eh, not really. FTLE is just the home position. A step or two above or below to see a play properly is okay. IMO he was where he needed to be to see the contact since it took place near the top of the 3-point arc. He just didn't put a whistle on it.

[BigCat]

I think C is too high the entire time also. However, I dont think it has anything to do with him not calling the foul. Sometimes guys see it and just dont blow the whistle. I think the screen is set a few feet past the lane line extended area. Clearly C area. I dont want T calling it from where he is at. He could have stepped out and over to keep a count and then perhaps gotten it. Ultimately, there's nothing really else happening in C area. He has to make this call.

Refereeing's hard. It happens...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Eh, not really. FTLE is just the home position. A step or two above or below to see a play properly is okay. IMO he was where he needed to be to see the contact since it took place near the top of the 3-point arc. He just didn't put a whistle on it.

He was moving when the contact occurred. There was no reason for the high C on that play. If he had stayed home position he sees the screener coming before the contact.

Stay at home in the C, don't look for reason to move towards the division line.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

1. Illegal

2. Who missed what? It's in the C's primary and it's his call. Odd that he missed it because he'd just (correctly) no-called a screening situation involving a different defender in Black, then the play moves towards him with B#3 guarding A#25. I would say C tried to accept the play involving the BH/D too soon instead of staying with the competitive match-up in his PCA.

3. T could have made the call but my guess is he saw B#3's right forearm come out and started to think, "Should I call him for and arm-bar?" (IMO, yes). While considering that play the screening situation may have surprised him and he may have thought, "Gee, I hope the C gets that one because I'm not sure."

Oh...not that he was involved in the call but L should have been in rotation while the ball was moving tableside. Right when the arm-bar dilemma takes place there are two players in L's PCA. Both of them are defenders. Meantime, he's still in the "A" position and is showing little sign of moving. Even if he's in close down he may not get to the "C" position fast enough to force C out to T but it might have helped.

im as tight as they come on hand check/arm bar/arm in hip but i dont call it here. it was on but off pretty quick....