Charge or Block (Video)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

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Those who think that people that work girls games are lesser officials can keep on thinking that. I'm quite secure in my abilities and what happens in other states means nothing in my little career.

It has nothing to do with what people think or if officials are secure in their abilities. It has every thing to do with the quality of officials who get assigned Girls games. Saying the games are the same means nothing if assignors are putting their best officials on Boys games, because, then in fact the games are not being called the same.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It has nothing to do with what people think or if officials are secure in their abilities. It has every thing to do with the quality of officials who get assigned Girls games. Saying the games are the same means nothing if assignors are putting their best officials on Boys games, because, then in fact the games are not being called the same.

Around here, they're just games for the most part.

I assign the varsity games for 22 schools (21 boys, 20 girls programs) and I do my assigning about 18 months in advance. I think I have 4 crews who only work boys games and I give them each a few dates, but I don't go out of my way to load them up. The exception is one of our college guys who takes dates and then takes young officials (even people I ask him to take) to mentor -- I'd give him whatever he wanted.

For me availability, dependability, and willingness to travel more than in a small radius trump ability every day. At the end of the day, this is high school basketball, not big business.

There isn't a single person I use who I would use on the girls side but not the boys side. Some (mostly females) work only girls games by choice. But I'd use them in boys games, too.

Some may disagree with that, but that's OK. I have 348 games to assign and not everyone will be happy, although I try my best.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It has nothing to do with what people think or if officials are secure in their abilities. It has every thing to do with the quality of officials who get assigned Girls games. Saying the games are the same means nothing if assignors are putting their best officials on Boys games, because, then in fact the games are not being called the same.

Then that's on assignor for their thought process. I hope you can appreciate as someone who works NCAAW games at the II, III and Juco level as well as BV and GV it ticks me off when I see assignors, officials or whoever dumb down the quality of the officiating. I think we've all seen that the quality of officiating can have an effect on how the game is played. It bothers me even more when I see the game - or the officiating - knocked in a forum like this. I appreciate both - in HS and below - because I work both and it's by choice because I have to be certified separately.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's all local. Here many assigners will not use officials if they won't work both genders -- or if they work only boys they will get the same number of boys games as a crew who works both (I may get 5 boys and 5 girls -- that crew will only get the 4-5 boys games).

Those who think that people that work girls games are lesser officials can keep on thinking that. I'm quite secure in my abilities and what happens in other states means nothing in my little career.

I totally agree it is all local. But if officials around here want to work boys basketball, they likely have to make a choice. And you are going to make a choice for a couple or reasons. Boy's assignors are not giving what they see as girls officials games for the most part. They do not see the officials that work girls basketball as overall the same quality. And most of all there are playoffs that are staggered. Girls start first by lower class and then bigger classes. So if you are working boys basketball, that would cut into your season or have to give back games if you are assigned any playoff on the girls side. And you cannot work that deep in the playoffs in both genders. You will have to decide on some level which you will focus on. And at the end of the day, the assignors want to assign people that are perceived to be the best as well. And if you are working the playoffs or get a chance to work a State Final, you are likely in the conversation of being one of the best. This is no different than what we were talking about what you put on your resume'. If you are not doing a lot of boys basketball, you might not ever get a real shot unless the assignor makes an exception for you as an official.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It has nothing to do with what people think or if officials are secure in their abilities. It has every thing to do with the quality of officials who get assigned Girls games. Saying the games are the same means nothing if assignors are putting their best officials on Boys games, because, then in fact the games are not being called the same.

I can tell you that in my area, the girls coaches would raise hell if that was put into practice (and they would be justified in doing so). There are a couple that have state championship trophies in their cases and they wield clout with our assignor(s).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I totally agree it is all local. But if officials around here want to work boys basketball, they likely have to make a choice. And you are going to make a choice for a couple or reasons. Boy's assignors are not giving what they see as girls officials games for the most part. They do not see the officials that work girls basketball as overall the same quality. And most of all there are playoffs that are staggered. Girls start first by lower class and then bigger classes. So if you are working boys basketball, that would cut into your season or have to give back games if you are assigned any playoff on the girls side. And you cannot work that deep in the playoffs in both genders. You will have to decide on some level which you will focus on. And at the end of the day, the assignors want to assign people that are perceived to be the best as well. And if you are working the playoffs or get a chance to work a State Final, you are likely in the conversation of being one of the best. This is no different than what we were talking about what you put on your resume'. If you are not doing a lot of boys basketball, you might not ever get a real shot unless the assignor makes an exception for you as an official.

Peace

Like you said, it's local.

The state assigns both here. Nobody will work state in both genders, but a lot of officials work deep in both genders. It's not that unusual for a crew to work state on one side and a sectional or sectional final (state quarterfinal) on the other side.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

Like you said, it's local.

The state assigns both here. Nobody will work state in both genders, but a lot of officials work deep in both genders. It's not that unusual for a crew to work state on one side and a sectional or sectional final (state quarterfinal) on the other side.

Here, at the state level, gender is set aside and all games are treated as equal. But I know for a fact (as in, from the mouths of assignors) that is not how it is done at the association level. There is still a strong good ole boy mentality in this state when it comes to gender issues.

For me, I don't like working girls HS games because there is such a disparity in quality of play. And my assignors do not assign me Girls games, except for holiday tournaments. I have never requested such treatment, but since it is in line with what I desire, I don't say anything about it. I'm good with working Boys games exclusively. In the off-season, I enjoy very much working high level Girls AAU games because of the quality of play.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Like you said, it's local.

The state assigns both here. Nobody will work state in both genders, but a lot of officials work deep in both genders. It's not that unusual for a crew to work state on one side and a sectional or sectional final (state quarterfinal) on the other side.

Well that is almost impossible here. Assignors or schools assign every regular season game. And right or wrong, they are the gatekeepers of what you will be eligible for in the post season. So if the IHSA wants to assign someone both, they would have to have good numbers or opportunities to be seen on that level.

I equate our system as what happens in college basketball. If the conferences or assignors are not going to make a habit of assigning an official to both genders, then you will never even be considered for both NCAA tournaments.

Peace

[walt]

Going frame by frame in the video, about 1 second in and 13:59 on the game clock, 'MAYBE" an extended forearm foul but cannot tell from angle whether the forearm actually made contact. Also, I could make the argument that the BH/D is the one initiating the contact while the defender simply is moving sideways. I know from at least one of my supervisors I would probably get this clip asking to at least look at whether there was an arm bar foul.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well that is almost impossible here. Assignors or schools assign every regular season game. And right or wrong, they are the gatekeepers of what you will be eligible for in the post season. So if the IHSA wants to assign someone both, they would have to have good numbers or opportunities to be seen on that level.



I equate our system as what happens in college basketball. If the conferences or assignors are not going to make a habit of assigning an official to both genders, then you will never even be considered for both NCAA tournaments.



Peace

I blame the assigners, then. What you are describing is not good for the schools, IMO.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I blame the assigners, then. What you are describing is not good for the schools, IMO.

I am under the impression the schools want it that way. Or at the very least the boy's coaches do not want to see officials that cannot handle basketball on the boy's side. If the schools had a problem with this, they would hire a supervisor for both genders most of the time. And since we are also independent contractors, no one can make anyone work games we do not want to work. This is not done without their direction. The entire system is in the hands of the schools anyway. They must feel it works for them. Unlike most places in the country, official's associations have no say in how games are assigned in any fashion. Even the nights the schools play each gender is in their hands. We do not tell them to hold boy's games on certain nights and times and girl's games at other times or not to do double headers. Schools have and could change this tomorrow.

Peace