Charge or Block (Video)

[rsl]

Since the clip is seven seconds long, I have a five second closely guarded call.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by rsl

Since the clip is seven seconds long, I have a five second closely guarded call.

does hs women's have a closely guarded 5 count during the dribble?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

does hs women's have a closely guarded 5 count during the dribble?

HS does not have gender distinctions if they are using all NF rules. So the answer is yes.

Peace

[Kelvin green]

I don't see the contactbeing much of a foul. In a girls game I get why it might be called but I don't think I'd call it. If anything I agree it should have been closely guarded call...

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

In a girls game I get why it might be called

I don't. Please explain.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I don't. Please explain.

In my experience this is something that mostly would get called at a girls game. For one that is the expectations of many coaches and fans and officials will oblige that way of thinking. And this is usually why officials that work a lot of girls struggle in boys games. Again, that is just my observation. And it appears a foul was called in this case, not a 5 second violation.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

In a girls game I get why it might be called but I don't think I'd call it.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

In my experience this is something that mostly would get called at a girls game... And this is usually why officials that work a lot of girls struggle in boys games.

Both of these statements are completely puzzling to me. I work both boys and girls HS...always have. The original clip looks like a no-call to me. Yet I'm curious how you two think OFFICIALS might call it differently based on whether it is a boys or girls game...or one would somehow struggle doing boys versus girls. It's not 1955 any more.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

In my experience this is something that mostly would get called at a girls game. For one that is the expectations of many coaches and fans and officials will oblige that way of thinking. And this is usually why officials that work a lot of girls struggle in boys games. Again, that is just my observation. And it appears a foul was called in this case, not a 5 second violation.

Peace

I know what he was saying, I just get sick of hearing people say it. I know I wouldn't put a whistle on this for a foul during one of my HS games, boys' or girls'.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I know what he was saying, I just get sick of hearing people say it. I know I wouldn't put a whistle on this for a foul during one of my HS games, boys' or girls'.

Well when both gender officiating is on the same plane, then maybe people will stop making this point. But I have heard people suggest that the reason girls have stopped playing basketball (not sure this was scientific) was because the game had gotten so rough. Now, I watch a lot of basketball, girls basketball is no more rough than any boys game that is hotly contested, but I have seen people that want fouls called just because there was contact, even if the contact was not illegal. And in this example a foul being called is part of the problem here. Not every girls official at the high school level is a college official like yourself either.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Both of these statements are completely puzzling to me. I work both boys and girls HS...always have. The original clip looks like a no-call to me. Yet I'm curious how you two think OFFICIALS might call it differently based on whether it is a boys or girls game...or one would somehow struggle doing boys versus girls. It's not 1955 any more.

That is a call I see made often in girls basketball that hinders the opportunity for those very same officials on the boys side (of course talking about my area and state). Where I live we are not required to be assigned both genders. We might have an assignor that assigns the boy's side of the conference and another assignor that assigns the girl's side of the conference. I can tell that if you call that foul with players that are in a pretty good talent pool for boys basketball, that will get you run out of the gym faster than prostitute in church. And I doubt a play that was filmed in HD is something as an example of what is taking place in 1955. I think we see a foul was called in this very play, which seems pretty typical. Unless you work a lot of D1 quality players like I did at the beginning of July in an AAU tournament, this seems to be an expected call by many in girls basketball.

Peace

[Rich]

I still work games on both sides.

I do not change how I call the game from the boys side to the girls side. I take every play at face value and try to apply a patient whistle to all plays. If a female player can't play through the same amount of contact, I'm not calling a foul "cause it's a girls game" -- I'm calling a foul because on that play it's a foul.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Both of these statements are completely puzzling to me. I work both boys and girls HS...always have. The original clip looks like a no-call to me. Yet I'm curious how you two think OFFICIALS might call it differently based on whether it is a boys or girls game...or one would somehow struggle doing boys versus girls. It's not 1955 any more.

Around here, in general, better officials work HS boys games more than they work HS girls games.

So the statement may apply to the quality of official working a girls game as compared to a boys game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Around, in general, better officials work HS boys games more than they work HS girls games.

So the statement may apply to the quality of official working a girls game as compared to a boys game.

That is pretty much the case in most of our state in my experience. My second year I have over 40 varsity girls games and in many cases was not assigned a boys games because I was not considered experienced or good enough. And on the flip side I had about 15 varsity boys games that same year. I only got the boys games for the most part because of my partner and they believed in his judgment. That all took place in rural Illinois. When I moved to the bigger area or part of the state, I had to do a lot more to prove I could work varsity boys games. And the varsity boys games were much better talent and the varsity I did in rural Illinois was not seen as good or the quality as the varsity that I currently work now.

And 19 years later or so, I still see officials not get a shot at boys varsity unless they have much more experience or have the top classification to even get a low level varsity game. Girls basketball is often for those who either are earlier in their career or at the end of their career. There are officials that can work a lot of girls basketball and are very good, but unfortunately those are not the norm. The college officials often will not work a lot of girls basketball as their schedule will not allow them to.

Peace

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Around, in general, better officials work HS boys games more than they work HS girls games.

So the statement may apply to the quality of official working a girls game as compared to a boys game.

I'm living proof that BNR's comment is true in general in our neck of the woods. I'm on the the backside of my officiating career. I've done one BV game in each of the past two seasons. I'm okay with it. I work the games that I'm assigned. However like Rich, I call fouls based on the play not the gender. In this play, I have a play-on.

[Rich]

It's all local. Here many assigners will not use officials if they won't work both genders -- or if they work only boys they will get the same number of boys games as a crew who works both (I may get 5 boys and 5 girls -- that crew will only get the 4-5 boys games).

Those who think that people that work girls games are lesser officials can keep on thinking that. I'm quite secure in my abilities and what happens in other states means nothing in my little career.