Americian Legion question

[Gmoore]

Bases loaded 1 out

Batter hits high pop up near first base umpire declares IFR if fair --runner is standing on the base the ball comes down hits runners helment and bounces into DBT (over fence) what you have?

[DG]

Originally Posted by Gmoore

Bases loaded 1 out

Batter hits high pop up near first base umpire declares IFR if fair --runner is standing on the base the ball comes down hits runners helment and bounces into DBT (over fence) what you have?

Batter out, runner not, dead ball as soon as it hits him. If he is off the base when it hits him, batter out, runner out, dead ball. Assuming it was fair when it hit him.

[JJ]

Same interp as Pro (what Legion uses as a rule set with a few modifications).

JJ

[nopachunts]

Was the batted ball fair or foul when it touched the runner on 1B? It makes a difference in how you rule.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DG

Batter out, runner not, dead ball as soon as it hits him. If he is off the base when it hits him, batter out, runner out, dead ball. Assuming it was fair when it hit him.

Here's the rule supporting the answer:

(7) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball
has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and
no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners
forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching
his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out,
although the batter is out;

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

Was the batted ball fair or foul when it touched the runner on 1B? It makes a difference in how you rule.

If you're asking abut the runner it doesn't matter for him. It does for the batter.

If it's fair the runner is not out by rule. Batter out.

If it's foul the runner wasn't hit by a fair ball so he's not out by rule. Foul ball.

If you're thinking about the runner interfering with a fielder he's touching his base so any interference would have to be intentional. None was mentioned in the OP.

[BoomerSooner]

Would anyone have anything different if the first baseman completely misplayed the ball charged in and it was a good 10-15 feet in front of the bag when it bounced off the runners helmet and no other defender has tried to move into position to field the ball?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

Would anyone have anything different if the first baseman completely misplayed the ball charged in and it was a good 10-15 feet in front of the bag when it bounced off the runners helmet and no other defender has tried to move into position to field the ball?

No. .

[BoomerSooner]

I haven't made up my mind one way or the other on this yet, so please help me if I've missed something, but what about 5.06 (OBR 2015 format) regarding Dead Balls:

"If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, no
other infielder has a chance to make a play on the
ball and the ball touches a runner immediately
behind the infielder that the ball went through, or
by, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not
declare the runner out.

If you judge the distance of 10-15 feet in front of the base to be enough to disqualify the "immediately behind" provision of this rule, there no need to discuss this rule reference any further. I guess my issue is that I don't recall the rule reference making a runner hit by an infield fly while touching his base an immediate dead ball situation (except for intentional interference). I know so many aspects of a runner being hit by a batted ball while touching his base get messed up, so I'm wondering if I missed something here.

[BoomerSooner]

My follow-up to that and where my mind was going was that if it remains a live ball, the batter is still out for the infield fly, but since the ball deflected into DBT, all runners should advance 2 bases.

[Rich Ives]

Go back and read Bob Jenkins post. The ball is dead. The exception is that the runner is not out.

The ball did not pass an infielder in the OBR baseball sense. Passing means through or within reach of the fielder. Neither happened in your play.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Go back and read Bob Jenkins post. The ball is dead. The exception is that the runner is not out.

The ball did not pass an infielder in the OBR baseball sense. Passing means through or within reach of the fielder. Neither happened in your play.

I get that the typical situation my reference applies to is a sharply hit ball (whether a grounder or in the air) that a strikes a runner behind a fielder. You don't penalize the runner for going behind the fielder to avoid interfering if he is subsequently hit with the ball because the fielder missed it.

I've also read Bob's post, which I'm now interpreting to mean that this is always a dead ball situation. From there, I'm trying to determine where I missed the rule declaring it so, or if there is an interpretation I've missed that you based your last post on that says OBR never views this within the realm of immediately passing an infielder. I've honestly never had a runner hit with an infield fly, and have been lucky enough to not need to be sharp on this area. Now that it is in front of me, I'd rather figure it out and be solid for when it does happen.

Going back to the original situation, let's say the first-baseman is standing immediately in front of the bag (maybe just a foot but certainly close enough that the runner is operating on the assumption the fielder will catch the ball and keep him from being hit). The fielder reaches up but still misses the ball, which then hits the runner while still touching first base. Would this still be an immediate dead ball situation? I use this example to ask if there is an absolute ruling on this general situation or if there is any judgement component that could lead to the ball remaining live.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

I get that the typical situation my reference applies to is a sharply hit ball (whether a grounder or in the air) that a strikes a runner behind a fielder. You don't penalize the runner for going behind the fielder to avoid interfering if he is subsequently hit with the ball because the fielder missed it.

I've also read Bob's post, which I'm now interpreting to mean that this is always a dead ball situation. From there, I'm trying to determine where I missed the rule declaring it so, or if there is an interpretation I've missed that you based your last post on that says OBR never views this within the realm of immediately passing an infielder. I've honestly never had a runner hit with an infield fly, and have been lucky enough to not need to be sharp on this area. Now that it is in front of me, I'd rather figure it out and be solid for when it does happen.

Going back to the original situation, let's say the first-baseman is standing immediately in front of the bag (maybe just a foot but certainly close enough that the runner is operating on the assumption the fielder will catch the ball and keep him from being hit). The fielder reaches up but still misses the ball, which then hits the runner while still touching first base. Would this still be an immediate dead ball situation? I use this example to ask if there is an absolute ruling on this general situation or if there is any judgement component that could lead to the ball remaining live.

I runner is out and the ball is dead when hit by a batted ball unless it goes through or in reach of a fielder.

The infield fly rule exempts the runner being out if it is an IFF and he is on his base. If he is off his base he is out when hit by an IFF. The exemption does not exempt the dead ball part.

[Gmoore]

In this play the runner was standing on the base and the ball hit his helmet and bounced into DBT

Batter was called out and runners advanced Two bases was the ruling on the field

[bob jenkins]

It's a weird enough play that I don't really fault the umpires for getting it wrong (as long as they looked it up after the game).