Catch or no catch

[IndianaGeorge]

Had the following last night while I'm umping behind the plate: Short pop fly near the foul line. Pitcher makes a diving catch, rolls over and lands on his back. As he raises he glove to show me the catch, the ball pops out.

I signaled out, explaining to the offensive team's coach that I felt the player had possession and the ball came out when he was showing me the catch.

After reading Rule: 2-9-1 on a catch, I'm still not sure if I interpreted it correctly. Is the player showing me the catch considered "continuing action of the catch"?

[bob jenkins]

Pure judgment.

If the ball was left on the ground or came out of the glove on the first movement, generally no catch.

If the ball came out after the player had moved the glove a reasonable amount, or came out when he opened the glove to show you the ball, catch.

[ozzy6900]

I agree with Bob on this. Pure judgement because there was no "voluntary release" by transferring the ball to the throwing hand.

[CT1]

"Complete control & voluntary release".

If I desperately needed an out, then he's out. Otherwise, no catch.

[RonTberry]

Originally Posted by CT1

"Complete control & voluntary release".



If I desperately needed an out, then he's out. Otherwise, no catch.

Just curious why an umpire would ever need an out, desperately or otherwise?


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[CT1]

Originally Posted by RonTberry

Just curious why an umpire would ever need an out, desperately or otherwise?

One example: 20-3, bottom of 4th & defense can't hem it up in a bushel basket.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by CT1

One example: 20-3, bottom of 4th & defense can't hem it up in a bushel basket.

Their problem - not yours.

[RonTberry]

Originally Posted by CT1

One example: 20-3, bottom of 4th & defense can't hem it up in a bushel basket.

I'm not an umpire. Just a former coach and rules nut/nit. But I can tell you this would really bother if I knew an umpire in my game made a decision based on what the score is.


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[jicecone]

Your down 20-3 in a HS level or below game. The other coach keeps all his starters in the game to pile up the score. They are stealing bases left and right and your going to tell me that it will upset you if a umpire "made a decision based on what the score is. Get Real!

Sometimes you have to face truth and realize that the team or the coaching, SUCKS! As a coach, you are there playing many roles to support your team, as a leader, parent and buddy. Not only are you teaching your players to win but, you should be teaching them how to face losing, with out accepting it.

Hell. not only would I make that call but, I have most likely already expanded my strike zone and possibly relaxed calling most balks.

If you can't understand the fact that it is STILL only a game at that level and below and are getting upset with a umpires "necessary" call at that part of the game, then maybe, you are coaching for all the wrong reasons.

It would be great if the world was just Black and White but, it never has been.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Your down 20-3 in a HS level or below game. The other coach keeps all his starters in the game to pile up the score. They are stealing bases left and right and your going to tell me that it will upset you if a umpire "made a decision based on what the score is. Get Real!

Sometimes you have to face truth and realize that the team or the coaching, SUCKS! As a coach, you are there playing many roles to support your team, as a leader, parent and buddy. Not only are you teaching your players to win but, you should be teaching them how to face losing, with out accepting it.

Hell. not only would I make that call but, I have most likely already expanded my strike zone and possibly relaxed calling most balks.

If you can't understand the fact that it is STILL only a game at that level and below and are getting upset with a umpires "necessary" call at that part of the game, then maybe, you are coaching for all the wrong reasons.

It would be great if the world was just Black and White but, it never has been.

Sometimes you're the team with 20 and sometimes you're the team with 3. Comes with the territory. We can deal with it.

A team I was coaching once lost a game in which my team had a 10 run lead with 2 out in the bottom of the last inning.

The LA Dodgers once lost a game to the Phillies when they had a 9 run lead going into the bottom of the 9th.

Stuff happens. We can deal with it.

[RonTberry]

Well I'm just a guest here so I'm not going to argue with anyone.


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[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by RonTberry

Well I'm just a guest here so I'm not going to argue with anyone.

Your questions and opinions are as welcome here as anyone's.

Welcome to the forum. I hope you'll stick around and contribute.

Anyway, back to the OP... that's a 100% HTBT situation; if he's still rolling from his initial momentum and the ball comes out, it's probably not a catch. If he rolls, stops, then raises his glove to show me the ball and it pops out, it's more than likely going to be a catch.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by RonTberry

I'm not an umpire. Just a former coach and rules nut/nit. But I can tell you this would really bother if I knew an umpire in my game made a decision based on what the score is.

I don't know what level you coached, but this happens on a regular basis in the three sports I officiate:

Football -- A runner near (or slightly past) the sideline is deemed to have stayed in bounds rather than gone OOB on a sweep. White hat is slow to stop (and quick to start) the clock on first downs. Minor encroachment or formation violations are ignored.

Basketball -- Minor violations ignored. Fouls only called when they affect player safety.

Baseball -- The strike zone expands. Any close safe/out decision defaults to "out".

In 30 years, I've rarely had a coach or player from the losing team complain about any of these. It's known as "managing the game."

[RonTberry]

I'm fully aware that games need to end and sometimes the officials have to help things along.

But "desperately" needing an out rubbed me the wrong way. Make the right call in those situations no matter what to me. If my players are still giving 100% I don't think it is too much to ask of the umpires.

But CT1 I do appreciate your response especially since you were able to do it without making assumptions and casting aspersions about my mental ability to understand the game and coach like jicecone did or assuming I'm berating umpires in a 20-3 game on close calls.


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[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RonTberry

Just curious why an umpire would ever need an out, desperately or otherwise?

Originally Posted by RonTberry

But I can tell you this would really bother if I knew an umpire in my game made a decision based on what the score is.

If you're just curious, then why would you take umbrage at the answer...

You say you're not a coach, so you've not been there. Jice's example happens. More extreme versions of Jice's example happens. Sometimes it's 20-3, and the side with 20 HAS put in his backups ... and the side with 3 (or more commonly zero) can't make an out to save it's life. Even the coach with 20 (30? 40?) wants you to help them out.

Don't get upset that an umpire would do this. NONE of us would do this in a game that's even remotely close.