Base running award...

[thumpferee]

NFHS

PLAY: R1 is on first when B1 hits the ball to deep center field. R1, moving on the pitch, thinks the ball will not be caught. After rounding third, he realizes the ball was caught. R1 retouches third and is heading for second, but has not yet retouched that base when F8’s overthrown ball goes into dead -ball territory.

What base would the award be determined from?

CB 8.2.5A states R1 would be awarded 3B.
Rule 8.3.5 b seems to state differently.

Last base legally touched would be 2nd?
What am I missing?

Tx in advance!

[johnnyg08]

Where was the runner when he ball left F8's hand? The award will be from the base last touched at the time the ball left F8's hand. When he goes back to complete his base running duties, the umpire will then award the runner third base.

But then the smart defense will appeal and the umpire will call him out because the runner advanced too far because he advanced to his next base.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

NFHS

PLAY: R1 is on first when B1 hits the ball to deep center field. R1, moving on the pitch, thinks the ball will not be caught. After rounding third, he realizes the ball was caught. R1 retouches third and is heading for second, but has not yet retouched that base when F8’s overthrown ball goes into dead -ball territory.

What base would the award be determined from?

CB 8.2.5A states R1 would be awarded 3B.
Rule 8.3.5 b seems to state differently.

Last base legally touched would be 2nd?
What am I missing?

Tx in advance!

Has the runner LEGALLY touched second?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Has the runner LEGALLY touched second?

it doesn't say that he didn't.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Has the runner LEGALLY touched second?

For the sake of the play, he touches 2nd and is on second after the ball becomes dead. Same as if he was between 2nd and 3rd as the ball became dead and retouched 2nd. But, we would not allow him to retouch 1st because of rule 8.2.5.

He had NOT passed 2nd returning to 1st at time ball went dead.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

For the sake of the play, he touches 2nd and is on second after the ball becomes dead. Same as if he was between 2nd and 3rd as the ball became dead and retouched 2nd. But, we would not allow him to retouch 1st because of rule 8.2.5.

He had NOT passed 2nd returning to 1st at time ball went dead.

The point of my question was that if he left first early, he can't LEGALLY touch second for the purpose of these awards (especially in such an obvious situation as this). That's what the case play is telling you.

(I will grant that if R1 leaves a beat early, and then rounds second and the ball is thrown out of play, I'll award home and wait for the appeal at first.)

And, OBR might be different -- the references have changed a bit over the years.

[CoachPaul]

He didn't legally touch any base other than 1st, but we can't award that way. He's assumed to have legally touched 2nd until the appeal. At that point, he's out no matter what you awarded him. The runner is in a no win situation because he can't retouch more than one base on the dead ball.

[thumpferee]

Thanks!