The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 01:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germantown, TN (east of Memphis)
Posts: 783
swinging third strike

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ej5o2DkZOJg



An umpire friend sent me a short videoclip and I uploaded it to YouTube so you guys could watch it and render an opinion. It's a trivia question, of sorts, so you have to look for all the details.

There are three plays, all involving a swinging third strike. In each case the question is: Did the plate umpire make the right call?

I'd be interested in some of your opinions. It would be helpful if you explained your answer instead of simply saying that the umpire got it right out wrong.

Last edited by APG; Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 08:52pm. Reason: embed
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 01:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Can't tell what the question is on the 1st.
2nd - half here will insist it's just a foul ball, but it's not. And frankly, given that we've had that argument 47 times, I don't have the energy to have it again. I'll just say, that's a caught ball for an out.
3rd - clearly (to us) a D3K miscalled by the umpire. Not sure he could see the bounce from there though.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 01:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 173
1) No. Looked like a catch.
2) Yes. Was a catch once F2 secured ball in his hand.
3) Yes. Batter left the circle before attempting to advance to first.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 01:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Can't tell what the question is on the 1st.
2nd - half here will insist it's just a foul ball, but it's not. And frankly, given that we've had that argument 47 times, I don't have the energy to have it again. I'll just say, that's a caught ball for an out.
3rd - clearly (to us) a D3K miscalled by the umpire. Not sure he could see the bounce from there though.
For the third, first base is occupied, so I'm not sure what he miscalled.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 01:53pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,770
(1) NO. It was caught.

(2) NO. That's not a foul tip. It didn't go sharp and direct to the catcher's hand or glove. It went sharp and direct to the catcher's leg. That makes it a foul ball. I'm glad that MD Longhorn won't wrongly argue with me, however.

(3) YES. First is occupied with less than 2 outs.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 02:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
I agree with Rich.

On #3 -- if first wasn't occupied, or there had been two outs, then I agree with Paul L in post 3 (but the batter would likely have acted differently)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 02:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
On 3, I didn't notice the graphic showing 1 out and R1 - I just watched the video. So yeah - he's out.

On 2 - not arguing but clarifying my response. I also am not calling this a foul tip. Just a caught batted ball for an out.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 02:17pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
On 3, I didn't notice the graphic showing 1 out and R1 - I just watched the video. So yeah - he's out.

On 2 - not arguing but clarifying my response. I also am not calling this a foul tip. Just a caught batted ball for an out.
I know what you are trying to say. I completely disagree with it, however. In this situation, the leg is no different than the chest protector. If it hits the protector first, you wouldn't dream of calling it a caught batted ball...or would you?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 02:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germantown, TN (east of Memphis)
Posts: 783
Here's what I was thinking about these. I could be wrong.

Play #1 - WRONG - The umpire is using the mechanic for an uncaught 3rd when, in fact, the ball was caught. An understandable mistake but, what if the catcher had thrown it over the first baseman's head? I wonder if the catch (of the pitch) is reviewable. I don't know.

Play #2 - RIGHT - The umpire calls the batter out - because he is! The question is: WHY does he call him out? It can't be a caught foul tip because it never touched the catcher's mitt or hands. Yet, the ball was caught. Since the umpire never gave the foul tip signal, I assume he's calling the batter out for a caught foul ball. Which would be correct.

Play #3 - RIGHT call WRONG mechanic? - Since there is a runner on 1st with less than two outs (I told you that you had to look for details), the umpire gave the MLB mechanic for an uncaught third strike THEN, it seemed to me, he belatedly realized that the batter was out anyway and signaled the out. He could have directly signaled the batter out as soon as he swung and missed regardless of whether the pitch was caught or not.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 02:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Emerling View Post
Play #2 - RIGHT - The umpire calls the batter out - because he is! The question is: WHY does he call him out? It can't be a caught foul tip because it never touched the catcher's mitt or hands. Yet, the ball was caught. Since the umpire never gave the foul tip signal, I assume he's calling the batter out for a caught foul ball. Which would be correct.
I read 2.00 Foul Tip as saying the ball cannot be caught period. It's a foul ball, not a caught batted ball for an out.

A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s
hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught
is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first
touched the catcher’s glove or hand.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 02:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
I feel like I'm being baited... And I worry this is going to go south soon... but........

Yes, a batted ball that is not a foul tip, which is caught before it hits the ground, is an out. At any level, in any code, baseball or softball. If you disagree, quote a rule ... and quote one that doesn't simply say that it's not a foul tip. A ball caught by F9 near the bat girl is also not a foul tip.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 02:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germantown, TN (east of Memphis)
Posts: 783
I think I'm going to change my answer to Play #2. Since the pitch went sharp and direct into the catcher, without touching his mitt or hands, it is a foul ball. If the ball had any discernible loop, however slight, it would be a caught foul ball for an out. I'm going with "wrong call", regardless of the umpire's reason.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 02:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I read 2.00 Foul Tip as saying the ball cannot be caught period.
Why?
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 03:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germantown, TN (east of Memphis)
Posts: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
I feel like I'm being baited... And I worry this is going to go south soon... but........

Yes, a batted ball that is not a foul tip, which is caught before it hits the ground, is an out. At any level, in any code, baseball or softball. If you disagree, quote a rule ... and quote one that doesn't simply say that it's not a foul tip. A ball caught by F9 near the bat girl is also not a foul tip.
Not arguing, but just wondering - wouldn't you think there would be an official interpretation about this ... somewhere? There are lots of things we know are true but are not explicitly addressed in the rulebook - aren't there? It's hard to believe that, in all the literature and interpretations, this has never been specifically addressed. Or, maybe it has and we just don't know about it.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 08, 2014, 03:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 173
OBR 2.00:
A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of
a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or
any other part of his uniform in getting possession.

Sounds like once the ball is no longer in flight or if you use your uniform to gain secure possession, like it's lodged between your pants and your shirt, it is not a catch.

I always thought it was getting secure possession before touching the ground.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swinging Strike Three Punch Out? tjones1 Baseball 3 Fri Aug 27, 2010 04:40pm
Swinging 3rd Strike Dead Ball njdevs00cup Baseball 4 Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:53pm
Swinging Strike + Hit Batter + Dropped 3rd Strike bfoster Baseball 19 Sun May 17, 2009 08:30pm
Swinging Strike Mechanic nickrego Baseball 6 Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:37am
Swinging 3rd Strike Call nickrego Baseball 40 Sun May 28, 2006 11:18pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:16pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1