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Old Sun Mar 02, 2014, 12:01pm
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Post Balk - Babe Ruth League - Has ANYBODY ever seen this happen before?

This instance happened last season, but I have never seen this happen before. Babe Ruth game. 2 man crew, I'm the base umpire. Bottom of the 7th. Winning run on 2nd base. Additional runner on 1st base. Runner on 2nd attempts steal when pitcher hasn't started his motion. Pitcher then starts his delivery of the pitch to home plate, and then stops his motion. When he stops his motion, the runner was ALREADY standing on 3rd base. I called time, and issued the balk. Now, because the runner had successfully occupied the next base by the time of the infraction, the balk sent him home to score the winning run. I know this is an off the wall play. But out of curiosity did I make the right call by sending the kid home to score the run?
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Old Sun Mar 02, 2014, 12:39pm
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Great question. Is the award for a balk TOP or TOI? I can't find it anywhere.

My guess is it's TOI since a balk can happen without a TOP being established.

I think you got it right.
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2014, 08:03am
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So the runner took off for 3rd. Then the pitcher started his motion (before the runner reached 3rd). Then the pitcher stopped his motion after the runner had reached 3rd.
Balk. Award the runner 3rd base. TOP. Easy one.

JJ
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2014, 08:35am
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For FED rules, balk is time of the infraction. Is this different for ORB?
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2014, 11:49am
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What you have here is a steal (successful) followed by a balk. In my opinion, you got it right. If R2 has not attained 3rd base upon the balk, then the award would be 3rd.
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Last edited by ozzy6900; Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 08:48am.
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2014, 05:53pm
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The base running awards table (pg 49 in NFHS book) says TOI. If he truly made 3rd by the time the balk occurred, then you got it right.

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Old Tue Mar 04, 2014, 02:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fed2You View Post
The base running awards table (pg 49 in NFHS book) says TOI. If he truly made 3rd by the time the balk occurred, then you got it right.
The problem is, this game was played under Babe Ruth rules. I believe Babe Ruth uses OBR, not FED, as a basis. I don't have any of my OBR interpretations handy, so I cannot answer the question of when a balk gets enforced.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2014, 03:44pm
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Balk

A balk in either Fed or OBR is a TOP award. If the runner from 2B had attained 3B BEFORE F1 is commited to pitch, the runner would be awarded home. If the runner was between 2B and 3B, the runner would be awarded 3B.

In Fed, the ball is immediately dead. In OBR, if the pitcher delivers the pitch, if the pitch is is hit and put in play, the BR safely attains 1B and all other runners advance at least one base, the offensive coach can either take the result of the play or the balk award.

See JJ's #3 post and Ozzy's #5 post.

Last edited by nopachunts; Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 03:46pm.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2014, 04:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nopachunts View Post
A balk in either Fed or OBR is a TOP award.
Nope. Fed it's TOI.
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Old Wed Mar 05, 2014, 12:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nopachunts View Post
A balk in either Fed or OBR is a TOP award. If the runner from 2B had attained 3B BEFORE F1 is commited to pitch, the runner would be awarded home. If the runner was between 2B and 3B, the runner would be awarded 3B.

In Fed, the ball is immediately dead. In OBR, if the pitcher delivers the pitch, if the pitch is is hit and put in play, the BR safely attains 1B and all other runners advance at least one base, the offensive coach can either take the result of the play or the balk award.

See JJ's #3 post and Ozzy's #5 post.
There is no choice on a balk. (Catcher's Int or Illegal Equipment ONLY)
If the batter obtains first and all runners advance one base from TOP, then the balk will be ignored and the play will stand. If not, runners get one base and the batter returns to the plate with the same count.

Jasper
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Old Wed Mar 05, 2014, 04:14am
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Originally Posted by stratref View Post
There is no choice on a balk. (Catcher's Int or Illegal Equipment ONLY)
If the batter obtains first and all runners advance one base from TOP, then the balk will be ignored and the play will stand. If not, runners get one base and the batter returns to the plate with the same count.

Jasper
Correct.
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Old Wed Mar 05, 2014, 02:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratref View Post
If not, runners get one base and the batter returns to the plate with the same count.
You didn't address the issue.

The question is not how you enforce the balk penalty. The question is, in OBR, are runners awarded one base from where they were at the time of the pitch (when the pitcher begins his delivery motion), or at the time of the actual infraction?

In the OP, R1 was between second and third when the pitcher started his delivery, but was on third base when the pitcher committed the balk by stopping his motion. If the base award is from the time of the pitch, R1 stays at third. But if the award is from the time of the infraction, then R1 scores.

Nobody has provided definitive language from any authoritative document that says one or the other. The rule book itself certainly does not have that language.
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Old Wed Mar 05, 2014, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
You didn't address the issue.
But he did address the error in nopachunts' post, which is why he quoted nopachunts.
Also, FED does provide a definite answer, as noted in post #6
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Old Wed Mar 05, 2014, 03:22pm
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Originally Posted by Dave Reed View Post
But he did address the error in nopachunts' post, which is why he quoted nopachunts.
Also, FED does provide a definite answer, as noted in post #6
My bad; I didn't realize he was addressing nopachunts mistake.

And I acknowledged earlier the FED position. But the OP is not being played under FED.
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Old Thu Mar 06, 2014, 05:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Nope. Fed it's TOI.
Mike, you are correct, it's a TOI not a TOP. Dang rule book memory.
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