Babe Ruth Follies

[BigUmp56]

Have you ever had one of those days when you just knew nothing was going to go right? I had one of those days all day today at a regional clinic for Babe Ruth Umpires.

It started when the regional UIC and head clinician started covering balks. He was going along alright until he mentioned that the pitcher must take his signs from the catcher while on the rubber or it's a balk. I raised my hand to explain that the rule was not to prevent the pitcher from taking signs from someone other than the catcher, but rather to ensure that he took his signs while on the rubber to prevent the quick pitch. He immediately told me that I was wrong and that if I see a pitcher take signs from the dugout I'm supposed to call a balk with runners on. Well, I didn't want to seem like an *** so I let it go.

The next item that made my head spin was appeals. We started discussing the ways the defense loses it's right to appeal, when one of the guys mentioned he had a play where R1 missed second base on his way to third. When the ball came back into the infield, F6 requested time and his partner granted time. F6 then went to the bag and verbally announced he was appealing the miss of the base. Evidently his partner rung him up immediately. The umpire in the class wanted to know if that was a legal appeal, and guess what. The clinician said it was! Again, I raised my hand and said that was an incorrect ruling, letting him know that no appeal can be made in an OBR game while the ball is dead. He asked me to show him in the rule where it says an appeal must be made during a live ball. I told him to look at 7.11 and if that didn't convince him he should look at 5.02 and then 5.11 to see how to legally put the ball back into play. He looked up the rules and still said I was wrong and that just for arguments sake he would get a clarification from BR International and see what they have to say. Like I don't know how that's going to come out already.

The next 'discussion' that got under my skin was also on appeals. One of the guys brought up the mechanic for a missed base when the runner beat the ball to the bag at first. The UIC said to do nothing and as soon as F3 steps on the bag, bang out the BR. Another umpire who I know from working HS games with said that also was incorrect. Not that I didn't know that, but it was nice to hear someone else take a stand on a bad ruling. We went round and round with the UIC trying to convince him the proper mechanic is to signal safe as soon as the trail foot passes the bag and then wait for the appeal. Try as we might he insisted it was our duty to call him out as soon as F3 received the ball while touching the bag.

We started covering obstruction, specifically type A. The UIC cited a play where R2 was being played on and was obstructed by F6. Okay, should be simple enough, or so I thought That was until he said to kill the play and if the runner had not gotten at least half way to third he is sent back to second. WTF? I've heard some coaches say some pretty stupid stuff over the years, but this stuff was coming from a regional UIC for Babe Ruth baseball. Granted this is his first year as the UIC, but that's no excuse for making these kinds of mistakes.

I hope things get better because they certainly can't get much worse.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Tim,

Is this guy for real?

You did mean Rule 7.10 didn't you? 7.11 is about vacating space to avoid interference. Also the place that I buy my Big Gulp and hot dog.

No wonder there are so many screwed up umpires out there with instructors like him running clinics.

[GarthB]

When politics trump competence this is a too familiar situation.

While it will always be involved, the better associations and leagues let politics make the decision between or among competent umpires.

[Edited by GarthB on Mar 18th, 2006 at 05:00 PM]

[mbyron]

It's also the Peter Principle: in any organization, people will rise to their level of incompetence and remain there. Sounds funny, but if you think about it for a minute, it makes sense.

I'm quite certain that this principle is unrelated to Peter Osborne.

[jumpmaster]

what region is this guy from?

[SAump]

Your 'discussion on appeals' got under my skin. It concerns the mechanic for a missed base when the runner beats the ball to the bag at first base.

A) The UIC said to do nothing and as soon as F3 steps on the bag, bang out the BR. He insisted it was our duty to call him out as soon as F3 received the ball while touching the bag.

When the runner stops at 1B, the margin for CORRECTION also shortens exponentially. Pitcher and catcher may not likely question an umpire {incorrectly} selling SAFE insurance. The defensive coach, who is restricted to the dugout, has very limited opportunity to restore timely order. Any umpire who then reverses his original SAFE call also has to deal with another issue, INTEGRITY. I think this UIC is standing on solid GROUND, not trying to impress us with knowledge.

B) The proper mechanic is to signal safe as soon as the trail foot passes the bag and then wait for the appeal.

Isn't it the responsibility of an umpire to make the right call? I cannot understand option B when the runner continues safely to 2B or 3B or home. Then the defense also has a 90-foot (plus) advantage to get in their timely appeal. I was also told at a clinic held by REAL umps not to signal safe or point toward home if the runner missed home plate. To choose his words, "It would look pretty foolish if you reverse your call 15 seconds later."

But again, I am not holding the bag of CHIPS on this one either. I am willing to consider another opinion from anyone willing to help me understand what I may have missed at my CLINIQUE.

[Az.Ump]

" When the runner stops at 1B, the margin for CORRECTION also shortens exponentially. Pitcher and catcher may not likely question an umpire {incorrectly} selling SAFE insurance. The defensive coach, who is restricted to the dugout, has very limited opportunity to restore timely order. Any umpire who then reverses his original SAFE call also has to deal with another issue, INTEGRITY. I think this UIC is standing on solid GROUND, not trying to impress us with knowledge."

" Isn't it the responsibility of an umpire to make the right call? I cannot understand option B when the runner continues safely to 2B or 3B or home. Then the defense also has a 90-foot (plus) advantage to get in their timely appeal. I was also told at a clinic held by REAL umps not to signal safe or point toward home if the runner missed home plate. To choose his words, "It would look pretty foolish if you reverse your call 15 seconds later.""

Are you George Costanza?

[SanDiegoSteve]

No, Lance Cokalinski's evil twin. The serious one!

[Tim C]

I do not think that SAump can state a clear statement.

I cannot follow his sentance structure, much less his discussions.

I must be in a "user error" moment since I simply do not understand his points.

That is not rare, by the way.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SAump

Your 'discussion on appeals' got under my skin. It concerns the mechanic for a missed base when the runner beats the ball to the bag at first base.

A) The UIC said to do nothing and as soon as F3 steps on the bag, bang out the BR. He insisted it was our duty to call him out as soon as F3 received the ball while touching the bag.

When the runner stops at 1B, the margin for CORRECTION also shortens exponentially. Pitcher and catcher may not likely question an umpire {incorrectly} selling SAFE insurance. The defensive coach, who is restricted to the dugout, has very limited opportunity to restore timely order. Any umpire who then reverses his original SAFE call also has to deal with another issue, INTEGRITY. I think this UIC is standing on solid GROUND, not trying to impress us with knowledge.

B) The proper mechanic is to signal safe as soon as the trail foot passes the bag and then wait for the appeal.

Isn't it the responsibility of an umpire to make the right call? I cannot understand option B when the runner continues safely to 2B or 3B or home. Then the defense also has a 90-foot (plus) advantage to get in their timely appeal. I was also told at a clinic held by REAL umps not to signal safe or point toward home if the runner missed home plate. To choose his words, "It would look pretty foolish if you reverse your call 15 seconds later."

But again, I am not holding the bag of CHIPS on this one either. I am willing to consider another opinion from anyone willing to help me understand what I may have missed at my CLINIQUE.

Let me help you with what you missed at your "CLINIQUE."


"Professional umpires are trained to render the "safe" signal and voice declaration at first base even though the batter-runner missed the base but is considered past the base when the tag of first base is made. This becomes an appeal play and the batter-runner would subsequently be called out for failure to properly touch the base. This is the proper mechanical procedure at all bases involving force plays. On plays which require a tag, professional umpires are instructed to make no call until the runner legally touches the base or the runner is tagged before legally touching the base. "


The reasoning behind this would be that a runner is considered to have legally obtained a missed base as soon as he passes it until properly appealed. All missed bases are appeal plays. As all plays deserve a call, if the umpire signals nothing, then he becomes the 10th man on defense and alerts the defense that they have an appeal available to them. Also, appeals must be unmistakeable, so F3 just touching the bag when he receives the ball can not be considered to be an appeal.

This is the AR for an appeal.

"An appeal should be clearly intended as an appeal, either by a verbal request by the player or an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire. A player, inadvertently stepping on the base with a ball in his hand, would not constitute an appeal. Time is not out when an appeal is being made.
Cross References: Appendices 15, 16, 17, 18 "


Tim.

[SAump]

Is this mechanic universally taught at the JE clinic or Pro/NCAA/FED-landia?

[BigUmp56]

Yes, all of the ones that you mentioned use this mechanic.

Tim.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by SAump

I am willing to consider another opinion from anyone willing to help me understand what I may have missed at my CLINIQUE.

The reason you don't understand is that you were at a makeup store when the rest of the umpires were at a clinic. This explains it all.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAump

B) The proper mechanic is to signal safe as soon as the trail foot passes the bag and then wait for the appeal.

Isn't it the responsibility of an umpire to make the right call? I cannot understand option B when the runner continues safely to 2B or 3B or home. Then the defense also has a 90-foot (plus) advantage to get in their timely appeal. I was also told at a clinic held by REAL umps not to signal safe or point toward home if the runner missed home plate. To choose his words, "It would look pretty foolish if you reverse your call 15 seconds later."

But again, I am not holding the bag of CHIPS on this one either. I am willing to consider another opinion from anyone willing to help me understand what I may have missed at my CLINIQUE.

The mechanic on this play is often described as "The umpire signals safe ...". I think this is wrong. The mechanic should be, "The umpire does whatever he would do if the runner had touched the bag." Now, it's consistent with the runner going to 2B, etc -- we're not tipping off either side, nor calling something that doesn't need to be called.

In practice, the play at first is "close enough" that we'd normally give a "relaxed" safe signal -- so that's what we should do when the runner misses the bag.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Have you ever had one of those days when you just knew nothing was going to go right? I had one of those days all day today at a regional clinic for Babe Ruth Umpires.

It started when the regional UIC and head clinician started covering balks. He was going along alright until he mentioned that the pitcher must take his signs from the catcher while on the rubber or it's a balk. I raised my hand to explain that the rule was not to prevent the pitcher from taking signs from someone other than the catcher, but rather to ensure that he took his signs while on the rubber to prevent the quick pitch. He immediately told me that I was wrong and that if I see a pitcher take signs from the dugout I'm supposed to call a balk with runners on. Well, I didn't want to seem like an *** so I let it go.

The next item that made my head spin was appeals. We started discussing the ways the defense loses it's right to appeal, when one of the guys mentioned he had a play where R1 missed second base on his way to third. When the ball came back into the infield, F6 requested time and his partner granted time. F6 then went to the bag and verbally announced he was appealing the miss of the base. Evidently his partner rung him up immediately. The umpire in the class wanted to know if that was a legal appeal, and guess what. The clinician said it was! Again, I raised my hand and said that was an incorrect ruling, letting him know that no appeal can be made in an OBR game while the ball is dead. He asked me to show him in the rule where it says an appeal must be made during a live ball. I told him to look at 7.11 and if that didn't convince him he should look at 5.02 and then 5.11 to see how to legally put the ball back into play. He looked up the rules and still said I was wrong and that just for arguments sake he would get a clarification from BR International and see what they have to say. Like I don't know how that's going to come out already.

The next 'discussion' that got under my skin was also on appeals. One of the guys brought up the mechanic for a missed base when the runner beat the ball to the bag at first. The UIC said to do nothing and as soon as F3 steps on the bag, bang out the BR. Another umpire who I know from working HS games with said that also was incorrect. Not that I didn't know that, but it was nice to hear someone else take a stand on a bad ruling. We went round and round with the UIC trying to convince him the proper mechanic is to signal safe as soon as the trail foot passes the bag and then wait for the appeal. Try as we might he insisted it was our duty to call him out as soon as F3 received the ball while touching the bag.

We started covering obstruction, specifically type A. The UIC cited a play where R2 was being played on and was obstructed by F6. Okay, should be simple enough, or so I thought That was until he said to kill the play and if the runner had not gotten at least half way to third he is sent back to second. WTF? I've heard some coaches say some pretty stupid stuff over the years, but this stuff was coming from a regional UIC for Babe Ruth baseball. Granted this is his first year as the UIC, but that's no excuse for making these kinds of mistakes.

I hope things get better because they certainly can't get much worse.


Tim.

Arguing with a clinician at a clinic is not bright, no matter how wrong the clinician is. Shut your piehole and let the idiot blabber on. Do you expect the clinician to say, "You know, Tim, you're right. I'm wrong, everyone." ?