WS obstruction

[constable]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

Would it matter on this play if the runner gets thrown out by 30 feet at the plate. Is is automatically given home because he made the attempt at home or could he be called out at that point?

In this type of obstruction it is a judgement call as to whether or not he could have scored. Once that is considered, placement of the runners is determined.

Hope this helps.

[Fan10]

Suppose that the throw from LF to home beats the runner by 20 feet. The runner then gets caught in a run down and after a few throws back and forth, he is tagged out in a rundown.

We know that he would not have scored, so an award of home is not an option. If you are protecting him to 3B, is he now out because he advanced past the base to which he was entitled?

[hog]

Going back to the OP. I, too, noticed that the runner never touched home plate. However, no appeal was ever made. Maybe it's because the PU botched the mechanics and called him safe, rather than calling time and awarding the base.

Originally Posted by hog

Maybe it's because the PU botched the mechanics and called him safe, rather than calling time and awarding the base.

Getting the call right and selling it are more important than using the correct mechanics. They way Demuth and Joyce communicated and sold the call was excellent and left no mistake as to what their call was.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Getting the call right and selling it are more important than using the correct mechanics. They way Demuth and Joyce communicated and sold the call was excellent and left no mistake as to what their call was.

It worked out ok in this case, but if Joyce had only protected the runner to 3rd base, DeMuth's improper 'safe' mechanic would not have helped at all.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

It worked out ok in this case, but if Joyce had only protected the runner to 3rd base, DeMuth's improper 'safe' mechanic would not have helped at all.

Since both umpires called obstruction and it's a play coming to DeMuth's base (plate), I am perfectly comfortable with DeMuth deciding the effect of the obstruction.

DeMuth's mechanic, IMO, is far better than any book mechanic. It was clear, concise, and explained the reason for the safe decision IMMEDIATELY.

[yankeesfan]

Pease answer with a yes or no only. Was this an "automatic" award of home plate in that situation?

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Rich

Since both umpires called obstruction and it's a play coming to DeMuth's base (plate), I am perfectly comfortable with DeMuth deciding the effect of the obstruction.

DeMuth's mechanic, IMO, is far better than any book mechanic. It was clear, concise, and explained the reason for the safe decision IMMEDIATELY.

If both umpires had made the OBS call, I would agree with you (although I think it would be just as clear if DeMuth had called time when the tag was applied and awarded the plate on the OBS). But Hirschbeck's remarks at the press conference indicated (in so many words) it was Joyce's call and DeMuth was mirroring it.

Assuming that is the case (and I know that is a critical assumption), DeMuth awarded a base for a violation he did not call. What if Joyce judged that the runner would be out at the plate absent the OBS? As Bob has said, you don't have to change the WS play much to get there.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by hog

Going back to the OP. I, too, noticed that the runner never touched home plate. However, no appeal was ever made. Maybe it's because the PU botched the mechanics and called him safe, rather than calling time and awarding the base.

I think his right foot touches the plate or at least comes close enough so that a viewer of the video can't tell. See 1:24 and 1:58 of the video linked in the OP. DeMuth may have judged that he did touch the plate just after the tag.

Either way, the runner has an indefinite amount of time to reach and touch the plate, since it is an award, and I haven't seen any videos that show whether the runner touched the plate in the following scrum.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Fan10

Suppose that the throw from LF to home beats the runner by 20 feet. The runner then gets caught in a run down and after a few throws back and forth, he is tagged out in a rundown.

We know that he would not have scored, so an award of home is not an option. If you are protecting him to 3B, is he now out because he advanced past the base to which he was entitled?

In your play, the out would stand -- just as it would if he was thrown out by 20 feet and kept going for home.

If the obstruction occurred while a play was being made on the runner, then the ball would have been dead immediately and any awards made -- with a minimum of 1 base to the obstructed runner.

This was about as easy as it gets, imo.

(And let me add that the HS rule is different. Most umpires know that, but we have several fans reading this.)

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Fan10

Suppose that the throw from LF to home beats the runner by 20 feet. The runner then gets caught in a run down and after a few throws back and forth, he is tagged out in a rundown.

We know that he would not have scored, so an award of home is not an option. If you are protecting him to 3B, is he now out because he advanced past the base to which he was entitled?

Obstruction was determined for This Play, at the time of the infraction, which means he was protected to a one base award beyond the runners last legally touched base. He was entitled to Home at this point and that "nullifis the act of obstruction" as stated in 7.06b.

OBR 7.06b If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time” and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.

Your scenario is relative to a runner going beyond the base to which he is protected. 7.06b Comment.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Obstruction was determined for This Play, at the time of the infraction, which means he was protected to a one base award beyond the runners last legally touched base. He was entitled to Home at this point and that "nullifis the act of obstruction" as stated in 7.06b.

the minimum one base award is only for Type A obstruction. There is no minimum for Type B. You could change the world series play a bit and have the out at the plate stand.

[pob14]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

Pease answer with a yes or no only. Was this an "automatic" award of home plate in that situation?

No. If you'll permit a couple of more words, constable answered this in the first post after yours:

Originally Posted by constable

In this type of obstruction it is a judgement call as to whether or not he could have scored. Once that is considered, placement of the runners is determined.

Hope this helps.