Batter interference?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Manny A

First off, what you hear from your high school association does not necessarily apply in a LL game. The rules and procedures have differences. What may be perfectly acceptable in a high school game may be totally inappropriate in LL play.

Yes, you should try to get things right. But in LL Tournament play, the proper procedure to start that process is for the manager to lodge a protest, not for an umpire who had no role in the play to come in and try to make his/her partner change the call.

Just to make sure I'm clear. I thought if you knew a rule was misapplied on the field you should get with your partner and correct it. However, if you are not certain of what your partner saw and thus whether or not a rule was misapplied than you should do nothing.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Just to make sure I'm clear. I thought if you knew a rule was misapplied on the field you should get with your partner and correct it. However, if you are not certain of what your partner saw and thus whether or not a rule was misapplied than you should do nothing.

Speaking strictly LL, which is the basis of the OP, here is what is written in the LL Rules Instruction Manual under rule 9.02(c):

"Keep in mind that the umpire who has made the rules decision is the only one who may initiate the discussion. Regardless of the experience or knowledge, no other umpire may force the discussion or overrule the decision. If a manager has a concern with a rules decision, he/she must take his/her case to the umpire who made the decision."

So you don't correct your partner on your own. You wait until he comes to you, either after a manager questions the call, or after a protest is lodged.

Again, that's what LL teaches. Other organizations may allow for another umpire to fix a misapplied rule. Maybe LL wants it this way because it has a well-defined process for dealing with protests.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Speaking strictly LL, which is the basis of the OP, here is what is written in the LL Rules Instruction Manual under rule 9.02(c):

"Keep in mind that the umpire who has made the rules decision is the only one who may initiate the discussion. Regardless of the experience or knowledge, no other umpire may force the discussion or overrule the decision. If a manager has a concern with a rules decision, he/she must take his/her case to the umpire who made the decision."

So you don't correct your partner on your own. You wait until he comes to you, either after a manager questions the call, or after a protest is lodged.

Again, that's what LL teaches. Other organizations may allow for another umpire to fix a misapplied rule. Maybe LL wants it this way because it has a well-defined process for dealing with protests.

I agree that is the way it usually is handled but there a few situations that I wonder about. One example is your PU gives 2 bases on a pitched ball going out of play due to a brain fart. Nobody questions it and your PU doesn't pick up your "I got something signal". Do you leave it alone. Later in the game you might have to award one base on a pickoff out of play and be questioned on it.
I do know that Wendelstedt teaches that if your partner calls IFF when it's not correct by rule that you should immediately call and signal that there is no IFF.

[RPatrino]

I feel that all umpires on the field are equally responsible for trying to avoid misapplications of rules and protests.

[PeteBooth]

Agreed if the "other" umpires are 150% certain that a rule was misapplied.

I give benefit of doubt to my partner making the call. Perhaps he saw something different then me.

Let's takes umpjm's simple example of a pitched ball going out of play and the PU awards 2 bases.

I step in and say no he only gets one base. We then converse and my partner says "Pete F2 kicked the ball into DBT while chasing the errant pitch which is the reason I awarded 2 bases".

Now we as a group look like s**t and give the appearance we do not know what the h**l we are doing. In addition your partner will give you that look like "stay out of my business unless I ask for your help" Our credibility will be questioned the remainder of the game.

Let the manager do his job if he doesn't like or agree with a rule interp.

In a nusthell, unless it's a "no brainer" the other umpires should not say or do anything unless the manager lodges a protest or the umpire who made the call requests assistance.

Pete Booth

[RPatrino]

Pete, I don't mean that you change your partners call, uninvited or unsolicited. The only time I would see doing that is if your partner doesn't see the ball on the ground on a tag play and you do.

I don't have a problem, if I have made an error applying a rule, if my partner comes to me to discuss it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

The only time I would see doing that is if your partner doesn't see the ball on the ground on a tag play and you do.

You STILL don't do it in this case.

[PeteBooth]

Even if you do not ask him to?

To me this is no different then the BU making a call at first base on a swipe tag / pulled foot. You as PU clearly see that F3's foot is off the bag but your partner calls him out. Unless your partner comes to you for assistance, you keep quiet.

Pete Booth

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by umpjim

I agree that is the way it usually is handled but there a few situations that I wonder about. One example is your PU gives 2 bases on a pitched ball going out of play due to a brain fart. Nobody questions it and your PU doesn't pick up your "I got something signal". Do you leave it alone. Later in the game you might have to award one base on a pickoff out of play and be questioned on it.
I do know that Wendelstedt teaches that if your partner calls IFF when it's not correct by rule that you should immediately call and signal that there is no IFF.

I had one person tell me, if you as the base umpire pointed at the ball, the IFF was actually called.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by umpjim

I do know that Wendelstedt teaches that if your partner calls IFF when it's not correct by rule that you should immediately call and signal that there is no IFF.

What's the signal for "No IFF"?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Publius

What's the signal for "No IFF"?

When it happens I hope you will come up with one. If it does happen, whether you call it off or not, the teams should know its not an IFF and maybe you get less grief if one of you has patented the "no IFF signal". Based on my experience, I will be doing the WTF or Oh shit signal, which nobody will be seeing. I don't think I have a verbal for that yet.