Little League World Series Umps

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE][QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Rich

Pete, your post is full of crap, in 2 ways.

(1) I give away over a month of prime money games every year to volunteer during the LL tournaments. I should be thought of as no less a volunteer because I work college baseball in the spring than these umpires are. In the end, we all meet the LL criteria for post-season assignments.

Rich you made my point by saying during the LL tournaments That was my point.

What about the regular season? You come in during the tournaments which I also do, but if I was one of those regular season umpires and did not get any Tournament games because you and other college / FED umpires wanted them I would not like it and I do not think you would either.

My main point is this

It's LL and it should be umpired by the people who officiate day in and day out no matter how bad / good BUT LL has sold out to TV.

Also, here most are bashing the LLWS umps

We had a PRO umpire this year allow a pitching change without the original F1 throwing a pitch a basic rule.

Pete Booth

[Rich]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;902878][QUOTE]

Rich you made my point by saying during the LL tournaments That was my point.

What about the regular season? You come in during the tournaments which I also do, but if I was one of those regular season umpires and did not get any Tournament games because you and other college / FED umpires wanted them I would not like it and I do not think you would either.

My main point is this

It's LL and it should be umpired by the people who officiate day in and day out no matter how bad / good BUT LL has sold out to TV.

Also, here most are bashing the LLWS umps

We had a PRO umpire this year allow a pitching change without the original F1 throwing a pitch a basic rule.

Pete Booth

The local leagues pay their umpires during the season. Mostly teenagers.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Rich

The local leagues pay their umpires during the season. Mostly teenagers.

This is how I got my start, for whatever it's worth. I was making $20 on the bases, $25 on the plate, for a $45 DH. Sometimes I'd just do two plates if the other kid didn't want to suit up.

When tournament time came, any of us who had our head halfway screwed on and saved enough of that cash to call up +POS and order a shirt and pants would sometimes work the District tourneys as volunteers. Here and there one of us would make it to Sectionals (or whatever's after District). I think this was partly because we had a few full-time volunteers who were trusted and able to vouch for us.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

This is how I got my start, for whatever it's worth. I was making $20 on the bases, $25 on the plate, for a $45 DH. Sometimes I'd just do two plates if the other kid didn't want to suit up.

When tournament time came, any of us who had our head halfway screwed on and saved enough of that cash to call up +POS and order a shirt and pants would sometimes work the District tourneys as volunteers. Here and there one of us would make it to Sectionals (or whatever's after District). I think this was partly because we had a few full-time volunteers who were trusted and able to vouch for us.

This is almost exactly how I got my start. Calling Little League for cash was a great gig as a teenager and beat the pants off of working a real job. We had a pretty good cadre of adult and older high school umps that helped bring us along. We always sent several to at least Districts each year though it never occurred to me to try and make it above that.

[Multiple Sports]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;902878][QUOTE]

Rich you made my point by saying during the LL tournaments That was my point.

What about the regular season? You come in during the tournaments which I also do, but if I was one of those regular season umpires and did not get any Tournament games because you and other college / FED umpires wanted them I would not like it and I do not think you would either.

My main point is this

It's LL and it should be umpired by the people who officiate day in and day out no matter how bad / good BUT LL has sold out to TV.

Also, here most are bashing the LLWS umps

We had a PRO umpire this year allow a pitching change without the original F1 throwing a pitch a basic rule.

Pete Booth

Pete -

I totally disagree with your opinion. If supervisors at any level can get someone whom they feel is better the so be it.....

It happens at every level...

For example, your from NY so I will use this example. The guy that assigns the MAAC Conference for basketball uses three guys that work a lot of Big East games to work the final and those guys dont work a lotta of MAAC games during the season, but they are better than most of the other guys and maybe the supervisor trusts them.

You have only said that becasue you work all season long, that you are entitled to those games (playoffs). Don't the kids deserve the best officiating the league can get them regardless.

More often than not, those guys supervisors are bringing in are just more talented and sometimes as officials we need to accept that they may be better.....

Assigners face the challenge of availabilty vs. ability. AS someone who has assigned at the hs level for 15 yrs, I'll take ability all the time. And to the umpires who are honest with themselves they will admit that more often than not they aren't working a certain game because I have chosen someone better,,,,,

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE][QUOTE=Multiple Sports;902937][QUOTE=PeteBooth;902878]

Pete -

I totally disagree with your opinion. If supervisors at any level can get someone whom they feel is better the so be it.....

It happens at every level...

For example, your from NY so I will use this example. The guy that assigns the MAAC Conference for basketball uses three guys that work a lot of Big East games to work the final and those guys dont work a lotta of MAAC games during the season, but they are better than most of the other guys and maybe the supervisor trusts them.




You have only said that becasue you work all season long, that you are entitled to those games (playoffs). Don't the kids deserve the best officiating the league can get them regardless.

Disagreeing is all part of the Internet Umpire Doscussion Forum setting. If we all agreed it would be boring.

IMO, you are comparing Apples / Oranges

In the example you gave College officiating is a paid job and that's the way it's done. Same in HS once you get to the sectional / state level. You are chosen because of ratings.

LL is a Volunteer Organization and is different. It's ok to use "so and so" during the reg season but because the "stakes" are now higher we don't need them anymore?

What message are you sending? In the example you gave there is a plethora of officials waiting for their chance.

During a regular season LL game, try and find umpires. I was once one of those "parents from the stands umpires" , enjoyed it and took it a step further.

IMO, cannot compare college or even HS officiating to a volunteer organization. Like I said can't have it both ways.

Pete Booth

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Like I said can't have it both ways.

Pete Booth

Except that LL insists on trying to do exactly that.

Like I said before, you get what you pay for. If you disagree, watch another game on TV until you agree. It's a mess. If you don't see the mess, you have put your blinders on and refuse to see.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by lawump

Seriously, don't start the video. Just look at that picture...and tell me that that is not Angel Hernandez in a LL umpire's uniform! Cleveland's HRs upend A's - SFGate

Originally Posted by Manny A

I don't like bashing umpires, but this gentleman was clearly in serious need of basic PU training. Notwithstanding his poor judgment and goofy strike calls, his slot moved as the catcher moved. It's as if he felt his proper positioning was just over the catcher's inside shoulder, no matter where the catcher set up. So he ended up behind the opposite batter's box for that last strike.

They tell us to do what got you here when you get picked to work high-level games. But this is something that has to be fixed before an umpire steps out onto the field. Some kind of assessment should be done of these ladies and gentlemen before the series starts. Williamsport is only bringing ridicule upon itself to let something like this go without making an attempt to remedy beforehand.

This umpire also pounded his fists together and then touched his mask with two fingers (not all the time but often enough that I picked up on it). Probably doesn't realize he's doing it - but it looks bad.

[Mrumpiresir]

There's a lot of talk here about volunteers Vs higher quality umpires.

Bottom line is the vast majority of umpires I've seen have demonstrated a complete lack of training. There are, of course, exceptions but I would not trust most of these guys in a HS JV game.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

There's a lot of talk here about volunteers Vs higher quality umpires.

Bottom line is the vast majority of umpires I've seen have demonstrated a complete lack of training. There are, of course, exceptions but I would not trust most of these guys in a HS JV game.

That's because you're mostly seeing untrained volunteers, or 20 year guys who have one year of experience repeated 20 times, rather than 20 years of experience. It's a monkey show, but who cares - they can replay everything.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by tjones1

This umpire also pounded his fists together and then touched his mask with two fingers (not all the time but often enough that I picked up on it). Probably doesn't realize he's doing it - but it looks bad.

I watched him do another plate game a couple of days ago, and saw him do this. I think it's some kind of quirky ritual to get him locked in.

[Multiple Sports]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;902943][QUOTE][QUOTE=Multiple Sports;902937]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Disagreeing is all part of the Internet Umpire Doscussion Forum setting. If we all agreed it would be boring.

IMO, you are comparing Apples / Oranges

In the example you gave College officiating is a paid job and that's the way it's done. Same in HS once you get to the sectional / state level. You are chosen because of ratings.

LL is a Volunteer Organization and is different. It's ok to use "so and so" during the reg season but because the "stakes" are now higher we don't need them anymore?

What message are you sending? In the example you gave there is a plethora of officials waiting for their chance.

During a regular season LL game, try and find umpires. I was once one of those "parents from the stands umpires" , enjoyed it and took it a step further.

IMO, cannot compare college or even HS officiating to a volunteer organization. Like I said can't have it both ways.

Pete Booth

Pete -

You are right, Being it is LL, the comparison may be a bit different. But ultimately, if I am responsible for umpires and you "volunteered" 20 dates
and someone else with 6 state championships under their belt is available and
has met LL qualifications and worked 1 game, I am taking him. If you don't like that, then you have to become a better umpire.

To be completely honest, I see a real trend in officiating today, where guys
are stepping out on the field or court poorly trained or not trained at all and are either in it for the money or are volunteering and then when "better" blues come along they are upset that they are getting pushed to the side.

Ultimately you are responsible for your own schedule........have you done everything you can do to ensure a good schedule.

Are you in the best shape / Is your uniform dry cleaned / do you know rules inside and out / do you have the best people skills (game management) / do you turn back game during the season.. All the above affecct your schedule in ways you have no idea....

Hope I didn't go off on a tangent, but nobody is owed anything in officiating.....

[Andy]

[QUOTE=Multiple Sports;903047][QUOTE=PeteBooth;902943][QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Pete -

You are right, Being it is LL, the comparison may be a bit different. But ultimately, if I am responsible for umpires and you "volunteered" 20 dates
and someone else with 6 state championships under their belt is available and
has met LL qualifications and worked 1 game, I am taking him. If you don't like that, then you have to become a better umpire.

To be completely honest, I see a real trend in officiating today, where guys
are stepping out on the field or court poorly trained or not trained at all and are either in it for the money or are volunteering and then when "better" blues come along they are upset that they are getting pushed to the side.

Ultimately you are responsible for your own schedule........have you done everything you can do to ensure a good schedule.

Are you in the best shape / Is your uniform dry cleaned / do you know rules inside and out / do you have the best people skills (game management) / do you turn back game during the season.. All the above affecct your schedule in ways you have no idea....

Hope I didn't go off on a tangent, but nobody is owed anything in officiating.....

You are absolutely correct of course and that is the way we would all like it to be.

Maybe in your assigning life, you haven't come across this just yet, but if constantly keep pushing aside the less talented, but always available guy for the more talented, less availability guy, the always available guy eventually won't be available. It's a fine balancing act you have to walk as an assignor.

[Publius]

[QUOTE=Multiple Sports;903047][QUOTE=PeteBooth;902943][QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

To be completely honest, I see a real trend in officiating today, where guys
are stepping out on the field or court poorly trained or not trained at all and are either in it for the money or are volunteering...

...but nobody is owed anything in officiating.....

Paying everybody the same begets poor officiating. Why would someone invest in training if they're in it for the money, and training does not result in a return on that investment? If the 3-year dropout rate is any indicator, most people who step on a court or field don't think officiating is all that enjoyable, so people who want good officials need to make getting better a worthwhile proposition.

Nobody is owed anything in officiating, sure. That cuts both ways: Game participants aren't owed good officials, either. I'm so sick of hearing how 'X' team or league "deserves the best officials." They all get pretty much what they deserve, and nowhere is that more apparent than the LLWS.

In both my observations and experience, in amateur baseball, generally, the better you pay the umpires, the better the umpires you get.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE][QUOTE=Multiple Sports;903047][QUOTE=PeteBooth;902943][QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Pete -

To be completely honest, I see a real trend in officiating today, where guys
are stepping out on the field or court poorly trained or not trained at all and are either in it for the money or are volunteering and then when "better" blues come along they are upset that they are getting pushed to the side.

Maybe in "your neck of the woods" but I do not see this trend at all. It's about availability.

You could be the best official around, but if you keep saying no to certain assigments even if legit (due to work / family etc.) you will not get the games. It's been that way at least in my experience "forever"

There is an overall lack of officials and I don't care if you are the biggest Smitty in the world, if you are available you will get games.

Pete Booth