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Old Thu Aug 19, 2004, 10:01pm
VaASAump
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OK, this goes out to all you Little League softball umpires (sorry Mike, LOL).

While watching some of tonite's LLSWS championship game between Texas and Virginia, I noticed that the manager of the defensive team was allowed to visit both pitcher and catcher at the mound. Is this something that is only allowed in the championship game? Little League Softball rule book states that the manager or coach may visit the pitcher at the foul line (catcher may be included in the visit with the pitcher). Visits to the mound only apply to Junior/Senior/Big League (Rule 8.06).

Or did the umpires forget this rule?

Serg
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Old Thu Aug 19, 2004, 10:07pm
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Ment to post this the other night.....But the PU in Tuesday nights game used Baseball Mechanics...You know "Pointing" to the side for all strikes. It looked really bad.
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Old Thu Aug 19, 2004, 10:09pm
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Rule changed this year for LL. Coach/manager may go out
to discussed the situation with players, so I was informed
this year when I did a couple of Sectional tournaments. It
was the only LL I called all year.

[Edited by whiskers_ump on Aug 19th, 2004 at 11:13 PM]
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 01:05am
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OK...another question about the pitcher. (Virginia) She had a little backswing then forward then came back again and started her pitch. I believe technicaly illegal, but would any of you umps call her on it.
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 05:41am
VaASAump
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Rule changed this year for LL. Coach/manager may go out
to discussed the situation with players, so I was informed
this year when I did a couple of Sectional tournaments. It
was the only LL I called all year.

[Edited by whiskers_ump on Aug 19th, 2004 at 11:13 PM]
OK, must have been a tournament change, because the rule book hasn't changed.

As for the Virginia pitcher, I really didn't notice an illegal pitch from her. But then again, I didn't watch much of the game. BTW, who won? (Had to get to bed early, some of us have to work early ) I was really impressed with the pitcher from Texas.
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 06:32am
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Angry To Kellerumps

Whether you think (quote)"Pointing" to the side for all strikes. It looked really bad",(unquote) is bad or not, is not the point here.
It's just your opinion. Remember this is LL not ASA. It is quite acceptable to point for strike indication. You know, the first time I saw the "ASA fist" strike mechanic, I thought it was the stupidest thing I'd ever seen, and wondered why the umpire was calling the kid out after only one pitch (strike one).
It's just a matter of perception, and what you're used to to seeing. I could personally care less what kind of strike mechanic is used by an umpire. What matters to me, is if they're worth a crap or not..........
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 07:35am
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I believe Mr. Kellerumps feels pointing to the side "looks really bad" because it usually involves turning the head as well. Here's an example of what could happen if the PU turns the head and points.

1. Delayed steal by runner between first and second or second and third...run down...BU is hung out to dry by PU because he's busy dancing around "shooting the gun" behind the plate. (yes I know they use four person mechanics, so it wouldn't really matter in this game, but I'm sure PU doesn't just turn sideways and point when in four person mechanics)

2. Delayed steal of home, PU is doing his John Wayne, then close play at plate and he doesn' know what is going on. (Then again, from the LL umpires I've worked with, he wouldn't be in any type of position to see it anyway).

3. Assuming we have an oversensitive coach, he/she could construe the point (especially if eye contact is made) as taunting.

These may sound trivial and once-in-a-lifetime but they have all happened in games when I was BU for Little League, with Little League umpires.

At least around here, they don't do a lot of training of LL umpires.

One local guy worked LL softball world series last year, and to be honest, I wouldn't call a game with him unless I had to...very quick on calls, doesn't move much, acts like a dictator on the diamond, etc. Our HS association scheduler only works him on varsity games if on of (his words) "the elite umpires in the association" are working with him.

Just food for thought!

BTW, Mr. and Mrs. Kellerumps are excellent umpires. I've worked with hundreds and hundreds, maybe even thousands of umpires over my 12 years in this game, and I would place them in my top 5 of partners I'd work with any time, anywhere. BTW2, there are no LL umpires in my top 50.
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 07:53am
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I'm not defending the guy


I'm just saying that pointing to the side is not, in and of itself, such a deplorable action. From what I saw of John Wayne last night, he didn't prolong the point (look), so even if one of the plays you describe, had happened, I don't necessarily think he would've been in any worse shape than anybody else to fulfill his duties, and render a judgement on the play.
I actually took more exception to his penchant for calling (in my opinion) pretty low strikes, and he didn't even show real good consistency there.
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 08:08am
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Lightbulb I agree

Quote:
Originally posted by FUBLUE
... (yes I know they use four person mechanics....)

They actually had 6 umps on the field last night.

At least around here, they don't do a lot of training of LL umpires.

I'm quite sure each of the umpires used had attended a recent LL clinic or was declared exempt from attending this year.
mick
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 08:16am
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What whiskers_ump said.

Quote:
Originally posted by VaASAump
Quote:
Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Rule changed this year for LL. Coach/manager may go out
to discussed the situation with players, so I was informed
this year when I did a couple of Sectional tournaments. It
was the only LL I called all year.

[Edited by whiskers_ump on Aug 19th, 2004 at 11:13 PM]
OK, must have been a tournament change, because the rule book hasn't changed.

As for the Virginia pitcher, I really didn't notice an illegal pitch from her. But then again, I didn't watch much of the game.

T'wasn't a tourney change.
The rule was in place all year, all levels.
Rule book wasn't edited, ... they print 'em early. But the change was officially noted for the regular season.

mick
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 08:54am
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Re: I agree

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by FUBLUE
... (yes I know they use four person mechanics....)

They actually had 6 umps on the field last night.

At least around here, they don't do a lot of training of LL umpires.

I'm quite sure each of the umpires used had attended a recent LL clinic or was declared exempt from attending this year.
mick
I'm sure they did attend a clinic recently, but if the quality is the same as around here, forget it. You'd learn more watching a wall umpire.

That being said, the better LL umpires in this area are ex-ASA umpires that do LL because daughters/sons played.
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 09:36am
VaASAump
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Re: What whiskers_ump said.

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
T'wasn't a tourney change.
The rule was in place all year, all levels.
Rule book wasn't edited, ... they print 'em early. But the change was officially noted for the regular season.

mick
Thanks. Unfortunately, we are a local ASA association who work local little league games. The only thing we have to go on is the rule book. The local districts don't inform us of changes, like this. Guess I'm gonna have to start coming to you guys for "updated" changes next year. Not that I mind.
Serg
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 10:06am
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Re: Re: I agree

Quote:
Originally posted by FUBLUE
I'm sure they did attend a clinic recently, but if the quality is the same as around here, forget it. You'd learn more watching a wall umpire.

That being said, the better LL umpires in this area are ex-ASA umpires that do LL because daughters/sons played.
FUBLUE,
Again I concur.
At local clinic levels the bar is often set too low for aspiring umpires. We mass produce the wannabees and throw them on a field; maybe we watch, critique or partner with them for a coupla games.
We offer our phone numbers, E-dresses and rarely get contacted again.

At the local levels time constraints are often poorly managed. So, it seems, local clinicians are more concerned with "enough" umpires than they are with the quality of umpire, and who do we hold accountable, local clinicians, local leagues?

Most wannabees are not forced to go to umpire training. They show up to learn an avocation. They are initially trainable simply because they are there to learn. What we do with those trainees after their preliminary instruction is the critical path toward achievement. Do we initiate the contact, or wait for them to ask? Do we take the time out of busy schedules to volunteer advice, or do we let them sink, or swim, on their own? Do we tell them they're doing "great", or do we nitpick 'em with how to's.

Some good umpires just happen. Other umpires need to be prodded, encouraged, pushed into being all they can be.
Is it up to us? Is it someone else's problem?

'Tis a twisted web.
mick
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 10:30am
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Lightbulb Re: Re: What whiskers_ump said.

Quote:
Originally posted by VaASAump
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
T'wasn't a tourney change.
The rule was in place all year, all levels.
Rule book wasn't edited, ... they print 'em early. But the change was officially noted for the regular season.

mick
Thanks. Unfortunately, we are a local ASA association who work local little league games. The only thing we have to go on is the rule book. The local districts don't inform us of changes, like this. Guess I'm gonna have to start coming to you guys for "updated" changes next year. Not that I mind.
Serg
http://www.littleleague.org/manuals/...ifications.pdf

Serg,
Here's the link they used this year. They usually put clarifications somewhere, but finding them can be a challenge.
mick
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Old Fri Aug 20, 2004, 10:48am
goldcoastump
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Almost all of the top Softball and baseball schools are now teaching the fist strike. You look at the MLB umps and the younger ones are calling just like ASA. Also they don't turn there heads on call strike 3. If you turn you head for anything during a live ball situation you are asking for trouble.
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