Rules Question

[legend]

Adult league (18-25 year olds), playing under mlb rules. Im the PU. Runners on 1st. & 3rd. 1 out. Pitcher starts to do the fake to 3rd-fake to 1st. Runner on 1st breaks for 2nd on the pitchers first movement, as the pitcher is turning from the fake at 3rd he pumps his arm towards 1st and sees the base runner heading for 2nd. so he turns and throws towards 2nd to make a play on the advancing runner. Is this considered a Balk?
I called it a balk and the coach wanted to argue that because the pitcher actually threw to 2nd that it shouldn't have been called. I've read the mlb rule 8:05 and now Im unclear if i was correct in calling the balk in that situation.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by legend

Adult league (18-25 year olds), playing under mlb rules.

I thought MLB made the fake to 3rd illegal this season?

PS - I'm not an ump. Just asking.

[Welpe]

Is the league playing under the current year's rules? A feint to 3B from the rubber was made illegal this year so assuming he did that, it is a balk.

If you're playing under the old rules, the feint to 3B is legal. A throw to 1st during the 3rd to 1st move is not required since he disengaged when feinting to 3rd (if he didn't disengage then that would be a balk). Once he disengaged on the feint to 3rd he just becomes another infielder and can throw to 2B.

[Rich Ives]

The third-to-first move is NOT the balk. The fake to third is in and of itself is the balk. Play stops there. Enforce the balk.

There was only a two word change in OBR (highlighted):

8.05 (b) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first or third base and fails to complete the throw;

By making the fake to third a balk it ended the third-to-first play.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by legend

Adult league (18-25 year olds), playing under mlb rules. Im the PU. Runners on 1st. & 3rd. 1 out. Pitcher starts to do the fake to 3rd-fake to 1st. Runner on 1st breaks for 2nd on the pitchers first movement, as the pitcher is turning from the fake at 3rd he pumps his arm towards 1st and sees the base runner heading for 2nd. so he turns and throws towards 2nd to make a play on the advancing runner. Is this considered a Balk?
I called it a balk and the coach wanted to argue that because the pitcher actually threw to 2nd that it shouldn't have been called. I've read the mlb rule 8:05 and now Im unclear if i was correct in calling the balk in that situation.

The fake to 3B is the balk. Runner on 3B is awarded HP and the runner on 1B is awarded 2B. You got the balk correct.

MTD, Jr., and I had the same play in a Roy Hobbs game in June.

MTD, Sr.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

MTD, Jr., and I had the same play in a Roy Hobbs game in June.

MTD, Sr.

I've had it at least a half dozen times this season. Almost to a T the sequence went:

Feint to 3B.

"That's a balk!"

"I told you that you can't do that any more!"

[legend]

thanks for the feed back much appreciated

[rbmartin]

In the scenario described in the OP, it would be a balk under current MLB rules assuming the pitcher did not disengage before the feint to 3rd.

In FED a balk is an immediate dead ball but I dont think that is always true in MLB. (see ruling below)

8.05 APPROVED RULING: In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

In the scenario described in the OP, it would be a balk under current MLB rules assuming the pitcher did not disengage before the feint to 3rd.

In FED a balk is an immediate dead ball but I dont think that is always true in MLB. (see ruling below)

8.05 APPROVED RULING: In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.

It's hard to balk and throw wild when the balk you're being called for is not throwing at all.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It's hard to balk and throw wild when the balk you're being called for is not throwing at all.

I'm sure you're right. I'm more familiar with FED at this time. But if the throw to 2nd (described in OP) rolls out to the CF fence, the offensive manager is going to wonder why R1 cannot advance to 3B based on my cited ruling.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

I'm sure you're right. I'm more familiar with FED at this time. But if the throw to 2nd (described in OP) rolls out to the CF fence, the offensive manager is going to wonder why R1 cannot advance to 3B based on my cited ruling.

"Balks-and-throws-wild" is NOT the same as "balks, and THEN throws wild"

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

I'm sure you're right. I'm more familiar with FED at this time. But if the throw to 2nd (described in OP) rolls out to the CF fence, the offensive manager is going to wonder why R1 cannot advance to 3B based on my cited ruling.

The balk happened when he failed to throw to third. The play is over at this point. The rest of the action never happened.