F3 foot in foul territory

[Rita C]

Getting ready for a game the other night (LL Junior District, 90' diamond)

One of my partners is approached by this old guy who is well known in the baseball circles in this town. He wants to know if LL is different in requiring the first baseman to have both feet in fair territory.

My partner turns to me to ask. I explain that, yes it's the rule but umpires don't generally enforce it unless there is a complaint.

Am I wrong in this?

The old guy said he knew LL rules are different than Legion. Sigh. Not in that one. Or most of the rules.

Rita

[jicecone]

No. You are not wrong.

Time! Coaches, please instruct all your players to be in fair territory at the time of pitch. Any violations and each player must go directly to jail, they can not pass go and can not collect $200.00. Except for you Mr. Catcher, your job is to stay here and protect my butt from getting hit. Play on!

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by jicecone

No. You are not wrong.

Time! Coaches, please instruct all your players to be in fair territory at the time of pitch. Any violations and each player must go directly to jail, they can not pass go and can not collect $200.00. Except for you Mr. Catcher, your job is to stay here and protect my butt from getting hit. Play on!

Interestingly, the old wording has changed in this year's MLBUM (retyped so I abbreviated some of the words):

"OBR rule 4.03 provides that when the ball is put in play at the start of or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory. In particular, when holding a runner on 1B, F3 shall position himself with both feet in fair territory. There is no penalty specified for violation other than F3 shall be instructed to keep both feet in fair territory if brought to the attention of the umpire, or-if blatant or recurring violations-upon immediate direction of the umpire. If a player, after so directed by the umpire, blatantly refuses to comply, the player is subject to ejection."

Don't know exactly what nuance they wanted to change.

[bluehair]

And don't ya love the coaches that believe in the myth that the penalty for 4.03(a) "catcher's balk" applies to 4.03. "No, coach, F3's foot in foul territory was not a balk."

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by jicecone

No. You are not wrong.

Time! Coaches, please instruct all your players to be in fair territory at the time of pitch. Any violations and each player must go directly to jail, they can not pass go and can not collect $200.00. Except for you Mr. Catcher, your job is to stay here and protect my butt from getting hit. Play on!

Except that NFHS Baseball Rules allow for a defensive player other than the Catcher to have one foot in Foul Territory at the Time of the Pitch.

MTD, Sr.

[Dave Reed]

Well, if we're going to describe FED rules, if the fielder doesn't have one foot in fair territory at the time of the pitch, it is an illegal pitch (See 1-1-4).

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Well, if we're going to describe FED rules, if the fielder doesn't have one foot in fair territory at the time of the pitch, it is an illegal pitch (See 1-1-4).

So that's why I sometimes see 8 players lined up along the foul line. I was wondering about that.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Well, if we're going to describe FED rules, if the fielder doesn't have one foot in fair territory at the time of the pitch, it is an illegal pitch (See 1-1-4).

True, but (nearly) impossible to call in 2-man. If you see it before the pitch, you fix it. At the TOP, no umpire is looking at F3's feet.

[ODJ]

In my first year, maybe fifth game ever, I called a balk on the 9 y.o. F3 "because I had read it in the rule book."

That is the last time I ever called it. Ahh, the 90's.

[Dave Reed]

Sigh....
Yes folks, I know we aren't looking at F3's feet at the time of the pitch. That's why it doesn't matter if the FED rule is one or two feet in fair territory, regardless of MTD, Sr's post.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bluehair

And don't ya love the coaches that believe in the myth that the penalty for 4.03(a) "catcher's balk" applies to 4.03. "No, coach, F3's foot in foul territory was not a balk."

If I had a nickel for every coach who knew the phrase "catcher's balk" at all, I'd have ... a nickel.

[Ump29]

To begin with I am only familiar with OBR. But if you read the section almost quoted above by umpjim , the rule requires all players except F2 to be in fair territory when time is called in , not at time of pitch. There is a difference.

[kylejt]

What possible advantage is F3 getting by having a foot in foul territory? (None, of course).

So, don't worry about it.

If a coach wishes to make an issue of it, feel free to start inspecting his players uniforms for uniformity. Oh, and that coaches box just got a big wall drawn around it, too.

The MLBUM throws a lot of words to say "Don't worry about it".

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Sigh....
Yes folks, I know we aren't looking at F3's feet at the time of the pitch. That's why it doesn't matter if the FED rule is one or two feet in fair territory, regardless of MTD, Sr's post.

Hold on just one minute "Pardner". Just what do you mean regardless of my post? I just stated the NFHS rule, nothing more, nothing less.

MTD, Sr.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If I had a nickel for every coach who knew the phrase "catcher's balk" at all, I'd have ... a nickel.

If you had a nickel for every umpire who thinks he knows what the 'catcher's balk' describes, but really doesn't, you'd have several thousand dollars.