Miami / St.Louis.....not a force at third

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Even if you saw it correctly the B/R would not be out.

F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove and tags R = out.
F2 has ball in rt hand contacting outside of glove and tags R, I still have an out.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bluehair

F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove and tags R = out.
F2 has ball in rt hand contacting outside of glove and tags R, I still have an out.

There is no "electricity" on the tag of a runner. The ball must be securely held by the hand or glove that tags the runner.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

There is no "electricity" on the tag of a runner. The ball must be securely held by the hand or glove that tags the runner.

So, F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove then tags R with glove is not out? Good luck with that....good luck with either no tag call.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bluehair

So, F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove then tags R with glove is not out? Good luck with that....good luck with either no tag call.

That is an out. This is what you described in an earlier post:

" it looked to me that F2 initially had an empty glove on B, but then his right hand (with the ball) pushed onto the glove while the glove was still contacting B.."

That is not a tag.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

That is an out.

Why is that an out? The ball is in the rt hand, and the tag is made with the left/gloved hand. I can only assume that you consider the ball in both hands (even though it isn't) and eligible for a tag.

IMO, the ball in the right hand pressed/trapped on the outside of the glove (instead of the inside) is the same. Either by rule or by practicality.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bluehair

Why is that an out? The ball is in the rt hand, and the tag is made with the left/gloved hand. I can only assume that you consider the ball in both hands (even though it isn't) and eligible for a tag.

You keep changing your words. Here is your quote, which I agreed was a tag (out):

"So, F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove then tags R with glove"

Of course that's a tag. Catchers do that all the time to prevent the ball from being knocked loose.

IMO, the ball in the right hand pressed/trapped on the outside of the glove (instead of the inside) is the same. Either by rule or by practicality.

No it isn't. The difference is, the ball is not securely held in the hand or glove that is making the tag.

[bluehair]

Catchers do use this technique, all the time. But they do not use the glove to hold the ball. They use their glove to cushion the impact of the tag. Very little of the ball (if any) is even touching leather (ball is not glove held). You seem to be hung up on the hand making contact with the runner must hold the ball by rule, yet you do not require it in this case. But you do require it in the other case even though in neither case is the ball held by the glove. Why? What is the difference? Seems arbitrary to me.

Any two handed tag is good enough for me.

[CT1]

Let's assume U3 realizes that B1 is out and makes no call because F5 doesn't attempt to tag R2. It's apparent that R2, believing he was out on a force, would still have headed for his dugout. Thus, he's now out for abandonment.

Right result, wrong mechanics.

[bluehair]

A good look at tag/no tag play at HP can be seen at 1:01 of this replay. If you're calling no tag on that, good luck.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

There is no "electricity" on the tag of a runner. The ball must be securely held by the hand or glove that tags the runner.

The last time "electricity" counted was in baserunners or tag in my neighbors backyard about 39.years ago......

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bluehair

F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove and tags R = out.
F2 has ball in rt hand contacting outside of glove and tags R, I still have an out.

Wow... I sure hope not.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Wow... I sure hope not.

When I'm taking a rules test or playing rules gotcha with internet umpires, no.
When I'm talking practicality and I see a two-handed tag like in this play, you betcha.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bluehair

When I'm taking a rules test or playing rules gotcha with internet umpires, no.
When I'm talking practicality and I see a two-handed tag like in this play, you betcha.

That's really too bad. Making an incorrect call on purpose solely because no one else would notice doesn't make it any less incorrect. If it's wrong on a rules test, it's wrong on the field.

[bluehair]

What would really be too bad would be the ire incurred by the umpire crew (from both teams) if my partner OOO'd a safe call on a two-handed tag like this. YMMV

[bob jenkins]

It sure looked like a tag in real life to me the first time I saw the video and from the PU's perspective it would be even more difficult to tell. Having watched the replay just this morning, from the one view that's about 3BX it looks like a tag.

I would give the benefit of the doubt to the defense here and rule tag.