Miami / St.Louis.....not a force at third

[Multiple Sports]

Saw the play on Baseball Tonight. The Marlin player bunted was called out and there was no force at third......anybody be willing to put the video up for all to see.....

Not sure how to embed MLB.com videos.

MIA@STL -- Turner bunts into double play

[David B]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Saw the play on Baseball Tonight. The Marlin player bunted was called out and there was no force at third......anybody be willing to put the video up for all to see.....

I'll give him it was a crazy play, didn't look like a fair ball to me, (went back and edited to say it did look fair on second look from where F2 was standing)
but if he called the batter out then why did he let them make the out call at 3rd? But, the runner ran past the bag and probably would have been tagged out - so crazy all around.

My question is what do you do as PU in this situation? You have the out on the BR, but what about the runner at 3rd?

Interesting

Thanks
David

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by David B

I'll give him it was a crazy play, didn't look like a fair ball to me, (went back and edited to say it did look fair on second look from where F2 was standing)
but if he called the batter out then why did he let them make the out call at 3rd? But, the runner ran past the bag and probably would have been tagged out - so crazy all around.

My question is what do you do as PU in this situation? You have the out on the BR, but what about the runner at 3rd?

Interesting

Thanks
David

Seemed like the only person who knew what was going on was the plate umpire. U3 incorrectly calls a guy out at 3rd base for a nonexistent force out and U1 calls batter/runner out again at 1st base. Odd play. As PU I don't know what else you can do from a mechanics standpoint.

[Multiple Sports]

I'm going to be critical of the base umpires......are they aware of the PU called???

I'm not a fan of instant replay, but darn this is a situation where umpire communication ( or lack of it ) hurt the Marlins.... But I guess you can argue
Why didn't base runner going from 2nd to 3rd see situation and stay on third....

Hey what do I know, I'm working three 11u games today....

[Rich Ives]

The announcers were right - the tag on the BR was made with an empty glove. Therefore the batter wasn't out at the plate. There may have been a verbal by U1 that overrode the out signal.

[jicecone]

PU points fair ball (Correct) and then signals out on tag by catcher. (Well what he thought was a tag and what the stupid announcer thought was interference).

The base umpires reacted to instantaneous plays and should not be subjected to critical evaluations by a 11u umpire. Maybe next year when you do 12 yr olds.

Sooo, it should have ended up with runners at 2nd and 3rd and one out, but somehow the either the PU was able to convince the HC that the right call was made or the HC figured his team wasn't getting out of the basement anyway and figured he could get to the local pub earlier.

[Multiple Sports]

How about in 7 years when I get 18 yr old games ?????

All the 12u were taken otherwise I would have got them !!!!!

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

The announcers were right - the tag on the BR was made with an empty glove. Therefore the batter wasn't out at the plate. There may have been a verbal by U1 that overrode the out signal.

U1 can verbally override PU/crew chief's out call during a live ball play? How do you figure?

B was out on the play at the plate (it looked to me that F2 initially had an empty glove on B, but then his right hand (with the ball) pushed onto the glove while the glove was still contacting B...but hard to tell).

CCS says that R2 was ruled out for abandonment...go figure.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bluehair

B was out on the play at the plate (it looked to me that F2 initially had an empty glove on B, but then his right hand (with the ball) pushed onto the glove while the glove was still contacting B...but hard to tell).

Even if you saw it correctly the B/R would not be out.

[D Ray]

Originally Posted by bluehair

U1 can verbally override PU/crew chief's out call during a live ball play? How do you figure?

B was out on the play at the plate (it looked to me that F2 initially had an empty glove on B, but then his right hand (with the ball) pushed onto the glove while the glove was still contacting B...but hard to tell).

CCS says that R2 was ruled out for abandonment...go figure.

There is another clip on MLB that provides a great angle (same link as the one in post #25 above)

Video | MLB.com Multimedia

Near the end (2:29 mark), it appears as though F2 uses his forearm to bump/nudge BR out of the space in order to execute a throw to third, but does NOT tag BR. PU does come out with a fair ball point, he then signals with a fist giving the world to impression an out call has been made, yet for some reason, AFTER that, BR jogs to first. Personally, I and every umpire I know has an accompanying verbal sound to go with every out call. The video leads me to believe there was no sound from PU, and the BR, came to the conclusion that he was not tagged. This out signal, was either not seen or ignored by U3 and U1.

It would be interesting if the crew or MLB gave an explanation of what was called. At least the NFL and now NCAA football have the crew chief explain what was called. This is one time I wish MLB had a similar mechanic.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

The announcers were right - the tag on the BR was made with an empty glove. Therefore the batter wasn't out at the plate. There may have been a verbal by U1 that overrode the out signal.

It looks like the ball is in the glove to me.

Video | MLB.com Multimedia