Batter Leaves the batter's box & HBP

[jdmara]

I had a gentleman ask me the correct ruling on a situation that happened in one of his lower level high school games last week.

2-2, R2, and 1 out. Pitcher starts his delivery and the batter, without being granted time, steps out of the box with ONE FOOT. The pitcher legally delivers and the pitch strikes the batter. Ruling?

Honestly, I'm stretching here a little bit but I believe using the following citations I have a dead-ball (because the pitch touched the batter) and a strikeout.

6-2-4d-1: The umpire shall call the pitch a strike

8-1-1d: a pitched ball hits his person or clothing, provided he does not strike at the ball; or:... if the umpire calls the pitched ball a strike, the hitting of the batter is disregarded except that the ball is dead.

What do you all think?

-Josh

[tcarilli]

6-2-4d-1 does not apply. The pitcher did not hesitate, he threw the pitch.

The batter has not violated 7-3-1.

HBP send the batter to first base.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

6-2-4d-1 does not apply. The pitcher did not hesitate, he threw the pitch.

The batter has not violated 7-3-1.

HBP send the batter to first base.

6-2-4d-1 goes on to rule on what happens if a pitch is delivered:

1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request "Time," it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call "Time" and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of 7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher *legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. Thus, two strikes are called on the batter in (b). If the umpire judges the batter's action to be a deliberate attempt to create a balk, he will penalize according to 3-3-1o.

So do we have a dead ball strike?

[nopachunts]

I have a dead ball strike. Batter stepped out of the box without being granted time. Exactly what I am saying to the OHC if he asks or complains.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

I have a dead ball strike. Batter stepped out of the box without being granted time. Exactly what I am saying to the OHC if he asks or complains.

The batter has not violated the batter's box rule, so there is no penalty.

[tcarilli]

PENALTY: ...If the batter leaves the batter's box, delays the game, and none of the above exceptions apply, the plate umpire shall charge a strike to the batter. The pitcher need not pitch, and the ball remains live.

He has neither left the box nor delayed the game.

NFHS Case Book

7-3-1 Situation D

B1 steps out of the batter's box (a) without requesting time... RULING: In (a), the umpire shall call a strike if he feels B1 delayed the game.

7-3-1 Situation F

B1 has a count of three balls and one strike. In (a), F1 throws a pitch which B1 thinks is ball four and he starts running to first base prior to the umpire calling the pitch a strike or (b) B1 incorrectly thought the count was two balls and two strikes and heads to the dugout after the umpire called the pitch a strike.
RULING: In both (a) and (b), as long as the umpire judges that B1 did not delay the game, he would be allowed to continue to bat with a count of three balls and two strikes. If the umpire felt that the game was delayed, he shall charge a strike to B1. Because of the additional strike which now has been called, the batter is declared out in both (a) and (b).

The batter, in the judgment of the umpire, must delay the game. He has not in original post. He has been hit by the pitch. He goes to first base.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

I have a dead ball strike. Batter stepped out of the box without being granted time. Exactly what I am saying to the OHC if he asks or complains.

I guess that fulfills your moniker! You need more patience here.

A) Batter did not step out of the box...
B) Batter did not delay the game (the pitcher pitched anyway).

You do not (or should not) have a dead ball strike in this situation.

[bob jenkins]

I sure hope someone from the FED is reading this and will finally get around to changing 6-2-4.

They changed 7-3-1 maybe 10 years ago now to add "and delays the game" but didn't make the corresponding change in 6-2-4. They did come out with some "memo" (I forget the exact format) that indicated it would be changed, but here we sit...

[umpjim]

2011 BRD had this as a strike no matter where the pitch was delivered. I think FED might have removed some confusing caseplays in the interim.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I guess that fulfills your moniker! You need more patience here.

A) Batter did not step out of the box...
B) Batter did not delay the game (the pitcher pitched anyway).

You do not (or should not) have a dead ball strike in this situation.

I may be impatient but I still have a dead ball strike. The batter did step out with one foot and by rule if the pitcher completes the pitch legally, the pitch is called a strike. If a batter is touched by a pitch, the ball is dead, hence the dead ball strike. That's what I like about you and Rita C, you are teaching me through disagreement.

[MD Longhorn]

6-2-4d-1 says both feet.

[David B]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I had a gentleman ask me the correct ruling on a situation that happened in one of his lower level high school games last week.

2-2, R2, and 1 out. Pitcher starts his delivery and the batter, without being granted time, steps out of the box with ONE FOOT. The pitcher legally delivers and the pitch strikes the batter. Ruling?

Honestly, I'm stretching here a little bit but I believe using the following citations I have a dead-ball (because the pitch touched the batter) and a strikeout.

6-2-4d-1: The umpire shall call the pitch a strike

8-1-1d: a pitched ball hits his person or clothing, provided he does not strike at the ball; or:... if the umpire calls the pitched ball a strike, the hitting of the batter is disregarded except that the ball is dead.

What do you all think?

-Josh

Time, runner goes to first. I'm not going to penalize the batter because the pitcher can't throw the ball over the plate.

Thanks
David

[bluehair]

Fed 6-2-4____contains balk rules
Fed 6-2-4d__ is the specific F1 not delivering a pitch without hesitation balk.
Fed 6-2-4d-1 is the exception to the 6-2-4d balk...B’s illegal action causing F1 not to deliver the pitch without hesitation.

So if F1 never hesitates nor stops his delivery, why should anything in 6-2-4 apply?

You have 7-3-1 which suggests that if B has one foot in the BB he is legal.

But then CB 6.2.4H contradicts RB and says a penalty strike is to be called even when B has one foot in the BB and F1’s delivery is never even altered.

Then CB 6.2.4I calls for the double strike penalty, sometimes. If F1 delivers a pitch, two strikes. Again, why is 6-2-4d-1 invoked if F1’s delivery is never even altered. If B's illegal action causes F1 to stop his delivery, only one strike. WTF ???

There are way too many variables and too many conflicting RB/CB references for this not uncommon situation. These rules are a mess and need to be cleaned up into a simple/concise rule.

Suggestion: It is a ONE strike penalty if, with F1 in contact and B in BB, B steps out of BB with either foot without “Time” being granted before doing so. Make it a dead ball penalty so that D doesn’t suffer the results of a wild pitch caused by B’s illegal action.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by bluehair

Make it a dead ball penalty so that D doesn’t suffer the results of a wild pitch caused by B’s illegal action.

Stepping out with one foot is not illegal. So that batter has not committed an illegal act. That would require changing the batter's box rule as well. This really isn't that common an occurrence.

Just as "hard cases make bad laws," unusual situations make bad rules.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

Stepping out with one foot is not illegal.

Yet, in 6.2.4H, B was charged a strike for one foot only (a) out of the BB.

Originally Posted by tcarilli

That would require changing the batter's box rule as well.

No, 7-3-1 could stay as it is. 7-3-1 is generally intended for the time in between pitches. In essance a game speed up rule.

Originally Posted by tcarilli

This really isn't that common an occurrence.

Agreed, but it is not an uncommon occurance...not the same thing. Every season I have a HS varsity B trying to disrupt F1's rhythm by asking for time/stepping out at inappropriate times. This is the kind of action that I believe Fed was trying to legislate against.

Originally Posted by tcarilli

Just as "hard cases make bad laws," unusual situations make bad rules.

Agree. I would prefer to go with OBR rules for this offense, but Fed seemed to want to penalize B for stepping out at inappropriate times. They can keep the desired penalty for B mucking up play. They just need to tidy up the contradicting rules/CB plays.