Batter in the batter's box

[SC Ump]

Of all places, there was a discussion over on the baseball boards about ASA and the batter's box. I started trying to reseach the FED softball rules and could not find this documented. I think I know the answer, but I want to make sure.

When a batter is taking his or her place to bat, my understanding is that their feet must be within the lines of the batter's box. To me, this has always meant that if a foot is on the line, but not at all touching outside the lines, they are legal. What's everyone else's understanding?

I would also like the rule reference if you have it, especially for NFHS.

[oppool]

Case book play 7.3.2 SIT A

The batter is considered to be in the batter's box waiting for a pitch when no part of either foot is touching ground outside the boundary lines forming the batter's box



Don

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by SC Ump
Of all places, there was a discussion over on the baseball boards about ASA and the batter's box. I started trying to reseach the FED softball rules and could not find this documented. I think I know the answer, but I want to make sure.

When a batter is taking his or her place to bat, my understanding is that their feet must be within the lines of the batter's box. To me, this has always meant that if a foot is on the line, but not at all touching outside the lines, they are legal. What's everyone else's understanding?

I would also like the rule reference if you have it, especially for NFHS.

Speaking ASA.

The a batter whose feet are on, but not outside the lines to the batter's box is considered to be within the batter's box.

[BigUmpJohn]

According to ASA rules, prior to the start of the pitch, the batter must be completely within the lines and not on the lines. During the pitch and after, they can be on the lines.

I believe this was discussed on a previous thread and, yes, it is being discussed on a baseball thread. Go figure.

[SamNVa]

Originally posted by BigUmpJohn
According to ASA rules, prior to the start of the pitch, the batter must be completely within the lines and not on the lines. During the pitch and after, they can be on the lines.

I believe this was discussed on a previous thread and, yes, it is being discussed on a baseball thread. Go figure.

Actually, the ASA rule states specifically: Prior to the pitch, the batter must have both feet completely within the lines of the batter's box The batter may touch the lines, but no part of the foot may be outside the lines prior to the pitch.

SamC

[DownTownTonyBrown]

You guys make statements of disbelief...

The current rules, today, of Softball and of Baseball are quite similar to each other.

Many of us officiate both sports and that likely has to do with the fact that the rules for both games are very similar.

To be discussing similar topics in both the Softball and Baseball forums is surely not unbelievable!

[BigUmpJohn]

Originally posted by SamNVa
Actually, the ASA rule states specifically: Prior to the pitch, the batter must have both feet completely within the lines of the batter's box The batter may touch the lines, but no part of the foot may be outside the lines prior to the pitch.

SamC

Thanks for the correction. I believe you corrected me on the previous thread that I mentioned in my previous post, so I'm batting 1.000 with you in being wrong. Wish that was my actual average during the season. I'm at school so I didn't have the rulebook with me. Guess I should start bringing it.

[CecilOne]

When there are no lines, the box still exists and the batter's feet must be in it.

Just to close the loop, the violation for being out of the box on bat contact with the ball is touching the ground completely outside the box or at least partially on the plate. It doesn't matter if the ball is batted fair or foul.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
You guys make statements of disbelief...

The current rules, today, of Softball and of Baseball are quite similar to each other.

Many of us officiate both sports and that likely has to do with the fact that the rules for both games are very similar.

To be discussing similar topics in both the Softball and Baseball forums is surely not unbelievable!

I BEG YOUR PARDON!!!!

While there are many similarities, there are also many differences. Many of the umpires I know who work both games often misinterpret the softball rule because they think if it is the baseball rule, it must apply to all types of ball games. So much so, they often skip the softball clinics as they believe since they do baseball, they've got it all down and they have nothing to gain by going to a softball clinic. Problem is with this belief is that it just isn't so.

The rules are different enough just between the sanctioning bodies, let alone different games.

Sometimes, they are almost as difficult to deal with as the player who thinks what they saw on TV applies to all types of ball games

Besides, SP softball came first, so why would I even consider applying baseball rules to the original?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
You guys make statements of disbelief...

The current rules, today, of Softball and of Baseball are quite similar to each other.

Many of us officiate both sports and that likely has to do with the fact that the rules for both games are very similar.

To be discussing similar topics in both the Softball and Baseball forums is surely not unbelievable!

Tony, they weren't discussing just similar topics - they were debating whether the feet had to be completely inside the lines in ASA, and whether in ASA there was a penalty. True, some of the baseball board participants also call ASA, but JMHO, having some of those baseball gods debate the ASA rule book does seem just a bit twilight zone.

[greymule]

The wording "completely within the lines of the batter's box" is ambiguous and did need clarification. One could certainly argue that being on the line is not the same as being within that line.

Apparently the true line (infinitely thin in theory) is the line that borders the outside of the chalk line.

In a SP playoff game a couple of weeks ago, I noticed that a batter had set up with his entire foot behind the back line of the box. I stopped play and told him he had to start on or inside the line (which was still visible). The guy acted as if I was the worst nitpicker in the history of softball. After he hit a weak fly to left center, he let everyone in the park know that I was responsible for his failure to get a hit.

But I did a playoff doubleheader in another league a few days later, and as BU I noticed that many batters were running up on pitches and seemed to be out of the box when they made contact. The league had used the one-ump system during the season, and the PU, one of their regular umps, told me, "They've been doing it all year. I don't call it."

So in the second game, I ignored about a dozen obvious infractions.

[CecilOne]

You can't be the worst nitpicker because I am. Imagine an umpire asking for a usable lineup or legal game balls or expecting the teams to know their home run limit. Or maybe it's Mike, not calling time until the runners stop.

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

To your question as to whether this is "Mike's influence"...

I guess you could say it is. I saw someone post over on the baseball side that in ASA the batter's feet could not be on the lines. I posted that I thought they were incorrect, but they insisted that they were. Being that I am not an ASA expert, I thought I would ask the question overhere where there are ASA experts that could state specific rulings.

My experience with the baseball board is that there are at times people that love to instigate "yes it is" / "no it isn't" type arguments. I didn't want to get drawn into one of those.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by SC Ump
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

To your question as to whether this is "Mike's influence"...

I guess you could say it is. I saw someone post over on the baseball side that in ASA the batter's feet could not be on the lines. I posted that I thought they were incorrect, but they insisted that they were. Being that I am not an ASA expert, I thought I would ask the question overhere where there are ASA experts that could state specific rulings.

My experience with the baseball board is that there are at times people that love to instigate "yes it is" / "no it isn't" type arguments. I didn't want to get drawn into one of those.

Dan,

Go for it! This sounds like someone who does an ocassional softball game, but works off his/her baseball knowledge to survive.

If they question your knowledge of ASA rules, cite ASA Rule 7.3.A:

A. Prior to the pitch, the batter must have both feet completely within the lines of the batter's box. The batter may touch the lines, but no part of the foot may be outside the lines prior to the pitch.

Cannot make it any more plain than that.

[BigUmpJohn]

Originally posted by SCUmp
I guess you could say it is. I saw someone post over on the baseball side that in ASA the batter's feet could not be on the lines. I posted that I thought they were incorrect, but they insisted that they were. Being that I am not an ASA expert, I thought I would ask the question overhere where there are ASA experts that could state specific rulings.

Unfortunately, I was one of those who questioned you. As I stated in an earlier post, I was wrong but I can admit it and learn from it, I hope. I have some catching up to do in the off season.