LL Rules - batted ball contacts runner

[CT1]

Why is this so hard to understand? The pitcher is not considered an infielder for the purposes of this rule. No judgment necessary.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why is this so hard to understand? The pitcher is not considered an infielder for the purposes of this rule. No judgment necessary.

Mybe a rules reference / cite would help.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why is this so hard to understand? The pitcher is not considered an infielder for the purposes of this rule. No judgment necessary.

I agree... and I can prove it in most rulesets. I'm having trouble proving it with just the LL book.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I agree... and I can prove it in most rulesets. I'm having trouble proving it with just the LL book.

I haven't worked LL in a thousand years, so I don't have a book. When I did that level, they used modified OBR. If there was no modification, the OBR rule stood.

I can't imagine that LL rules would differ in this area, but I'm willing to be proved wrong.

[umpjim]

Rita posted the cite: 5.09(f) both in OBR and LLGB. Using the "did not pass rationalization" would not allow you to get an out in OBR on a base hit grounder between two infielders that passed them and hit a runner. No string theory in OBR. FED is different.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I agree... and I can prove it in most rulesets. I'm having trouble proving it with just the LL book.

I gave you the rules from the Little League book.

Rita

[bob jenkins]

Is LL 5.09(f) the same as OBR 5.09(f)?:

A fair ball touches a runner or an umpire on fair territory before it touches an
infielder including the pitcher, or touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder
other than the pitcher; runners advance, if forced.

If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, no other infielder has a chance to
make a play on the ball and the ball touches a runner immediately behind the
infielder that the ball went through, or by, the ball is in play and the umpire shall
not declare the runner out. If a fair ball touches a runner after being deflected by an
infielder, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not declare the runner out;

Rule 5.09(f) Comment: If a fair ball touches an umpire working in the infield after it has
bounded past, or over, the pitcher, it is a dead ball. If a batted ball is deflected by a fielder in fair territory
and hits a runner or an umpire while still in flight and then caught by an infielder it shall not be a
catch, but the ball shall remain in play.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Is LL 5.09(f) the same as OBR 5.09(f)?:

A fair ball touches a runner or an umpire on fair territory before it touches an
infielder including the pitcher, or touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder
other than the pitcher; runners advance, if forced.

If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, no other infielder has a chance to
make a play on the ball and the ball touches a runner immediately behind the
infielder that the ball went through, or by, the ball is in play and the umpire shall
not declare the runner out. If a fair ball touches a runner after being deflected by an
infielder, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not declare the runner out;

Rule 5.09(f) Comment: If a fair ball touches an umpire working in the infield after it has
bounded past, or over, the pitcher, it is a dead ball. If a batted ball is deflected by a fielder in fair territory
and hits a runner or an umpire while still in flight and then caught by an infielder it shall not be a
catch, but the ball shall remain in play.

The LL rule has the exact same wording as the bolded part and the rest of the rule is similar except for editorial differences.

Upon further review it appears we have a problem.

Wendelstedt solves this problem by saying: "passes thru or by a fielder other than the pitcher" in their explanation of rule 7.09(k) even thought the rule does not have that exception.

I think we have to parse the rule: If the ball touches a fielder, the runner is protected. The pitcher is a fielder.
If the ball goes thru or by an infielder, the runner is protected except for the exception. The pitcher is not an infielder except where he is defined as one such as for the purpose of IFF.

But then we have the problem of the pitcher intentionally dropping a fly ball or line drive.