play at the plate UNC vs. NC State

[CT1]

Originally Posted by Rich

With the umpire in question, I doubt it. He's probably one of the top college umpires of all time. Whatever he did would be held up as the right thing, I suspect.

Yes, but --

The problem *I* have with the no-ejection is that younger players who watched this game may now think that they have carte blanche to do the same thing. When they get dumped (as most have said they would do at lower levels), they don't understand why.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CT1

Yes, but --

The problem *I* have with the no-ejection is that younger players who watched this game may now think that they have carte blanche to do the same thing. When they get dumped (as most have said they would do at lower levels), they don't understand why.

They'll figure it out.

[JJ]

Can anyone post video of the play and/or the conversation with the HC?

JJ

[Andy]

Here is the video of the play from NCAA.com...doesn't show much of the conversation with the coach afterward, but does show the reaction of the pitcher and catcher.

CWS Wrap-up: Game 10 - NCAA.com

[JJ]

I can imagine that coach the next time they see each other at a home plate meeting - after he's had a chance to see the film. He'll look at the ground, shuffle his feet, and say quietly, "Good call". And that will be that.

JJ

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by UES

That's why he's at the CWS in Omaha (for the 3rd time) and you are at home WATCHING him work the CWS... enough said

BTW, it was a GREAT call and GREAT positioning... as well as GREAT composure!

Oh, and one more thing, I don't know you're background but if I had to guess, "your share of big games" is slightly different than JB's big games. Try googling his background an you'll see what I mean... incredible experience at almost every level of the game and a great guy as well!

You need to back off. I never compared myself to JB and my "Big Games" were not at such a high level.

I'm simply saying that throwing equipment should be an immediate ejection. I think this is true at all levels.

JB handled it but that doesn't mean we should tolerate spoiled ballplayers.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by JJ

I can imagine that coach the next time they see each other at a home plate meeting - after he's had a chance to see the film.
JJ

I was doing a varsity high school game earlier this year (I was at "B" position) and called a guy safe at first on a pick-off attempt. Caught an earful from 3rd base dugout. The next morning in the small local paper was a perfect still photo of the runner diving back before the tag. Life was good. Visiting coach was very polite to me the next time we met.

[lawump]

First things first: I have not umpired, nor will I likely ever umpire, a CWS.

With that said, I have been selected by our state high school governing body to umpire 8 state championships and I will be working my 5th consecutive American Legion regional this year. While I do have a longer fuse in these big games, the fact remains I have had several ejections at both events; when they eject themselves...they eject themselves, period. If they earn the ejection I will eject them. If as a result of that ejection, the governing/organizing body won't have me back, then so be it. I will have my self-respect as an umpire, however.

F1 and F2 both earned automatic ejections. This isn't MLB where you can give an "equipment violation" to keep them in the game. Those actions are automatic heave-ho's from MiLB down to LL.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Rich

And I hope someone has the balls to ask the question, "Why weren't they ejected?"

I thought Burleson dealt with the coach extremely well.

Good point - it was a great call but should have been an ejection also. Will be interesting to see how NCAA handles that for next year - bet its going to be a POE or something of that nature.

Thanks
David

[jicecone]

Sometimes you have to understand what you are there to do. Umpire a game.

Both of the players threw their equipment out of frustration. Not as much with the umpires call as with the outcome of what they expected the call to be. GOOD players, that work hard in important games have emotions just like everyone else. Sometimes you as an official have to stand back and let that frustration happen, deal with it and move on.

If you can't, then your telling the rest of the world that you don't belong in that situation. You lack the confidence as an official, in controlling a contest at any given moment and you either need to eject someone because of a preconceived idea that it will make you look better, or it is the only way you know, how to handle a situation. You need seasoning and your definetly not ready to handle the game in question.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by JJ

I can imagine that coach the next time they see each other at a home plate meeting - after he's had a chance to see the film. He'll look at the ground, shuffle his feet, and say quietly, "Good call". And that will be that.

JJ

No he won't. Read this.

Game-changing call - NCAA.com

[dash_riprock]

NC State HC: "The ball just beat him so much that obviously maybe we didn’t block the plate good enough. But with the rules, it says you can’t block home plate."

If he had coached his catcher to block the plate, they would have had an easy out. Good job knowing the rules, coach.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Sometimes you have to understand what you are there to do. Umpire a game.

Both of the players threw their equipment out of frustration. Not as much with the umpires call as with the outcome of what they expected the call to be. GOOD players, that work hard in important games have emotions just like everyone else. Sometimes you as an official have to stand back and let that frustration happen, deal with it and move on.

If you can't, then your telling the rest of the world that you don't belong in that situation. You lack the confidence as an official, in controlling a contest at any given moment and you either need to eject someone because of a preconceived idea that it will make you look better, or it is the only way you know, how to handle a situation. You need seasoning and your definetly not ready to handle the game in question.

There is certainly some truth to the fact the the leash is a little longer on an immediate emotional reaction to a play like this. Certainly (I think) had one of the players yelled "no way. he was out. You have to see that" and THEN thrown the glove / mask, thre would have been an ejection.

The question though, is whether the "long leash" extends to that much of a display.

[UES]

Here's the reality of the play - NCAA POST SEASON (Regional, Super Regional & CWS):

1: Both players would have been ejected in a regular season NCAA game, however, this was not a typical regular season game. At this stage of the season, leashes are much longer (right or wrong) and that's what the NCAA wants. Many of you disagree with this (and I, to a certain extent, feel the same way), BUT if you want to work NCAA post season baseball, especially at D-1 level, you need to understand these things... even if you don't necessarily agree with them.

2: JB could have easily thrown them out and would have been totallhy justified ... HOWEVER, doing so, in this particular situation (ejecting the starting pitcher and catcher in the 4th inning of the CWS) would have drastically impacted the outcome of the game. Its very easy to have a knee jerk reaction and automatically dump both of those players in that situation (and rightfully so) BUT, fair or unfair, that's not necessarily in the "best interest" of THAT game at THAT particular time. (I know that sounds stupid to most of you but that's the reality of NCAA post season games in this day in age)

3. Dumping both of those kids would have been front page news and would have been one of the only things talked about after that game (ie, NC State loses after HP Umpire ejects Starting P & Catcher of game). We all know that's BS but that is how baseball people think and the media would have had a field day with it. One of the common criticisms of officials is that we need to let the "players decide the outcome of the game". Right or wrong, that's exactly what Burley did in this situation and I can guarantee you that he was praised by Gene McCartor and the NCAA "brass" after the game (despite what many umpires feel he should have done)

4. Players (or "student athletes" as they are commonly referred to, lol) often react on emotion and their behavior is held to lower standards because they are 'kids". Officials, on the other hand, are adults that are held to a much higher standard and expected to keep their composure at all times, regardless of how bad players and coaches act. Unfortunately, this also means that in certain rare situations, like the play we're talking about, we are expected to be "more understanding" of how important these games are to the "kids". Yes, I know, its a bunch of BS and an excuse that allows them to act inappropriately and get away with it. Again, this is a sign of the times because if I would have acted in that manner when I played ball growing up, my COACH would have taken me out of the game and my dad would have beat my a$$ when I got home.

5. I could go on and on but while all of you make good points as to why they should have been dumped... ultimately, I think Burleson made the right decision at that particular time, with those particular players involved and with the magnitude of that particular game. Don't get me wrong, he would have also been right to eject them but that decision may have not set very well with the NCAA people... the same one's that make the umpire selections and pay them almost $5,000 to officiate the CWS. Sometime, the saying... "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" is something you follow - even when you don't necessarily agree with some of the direction given.

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by UES

Here's the reality of the play - NCAA POST SEASON (Regional, Super Regional & CWS):

1: Both players would have been ejected in a regular season NCAA game, however, this was not a typical regular season game. At this stage of the season, leashes are much longer (right or wrong) and that's what the NCAA wants. Many of you disagree with this (and I, to a certain extent, feel the same way), BUT if you want to work NCAA post season baseball, especially at D-1 level, you need to understand these things... even if you don't necessarily agree with them.

2: JB could have easily thrown them out and would have been totallhy justified ... HOWEVER, doing so, in this particular situation (ejecting the starting pitcher and catcher in the 4th inning of the CWS) would have drastically impacted the outcome of the game. Its very easy to have a knee jerk reaction and automatically dump both of those players in that situation (and rightfully so) BUT, fair or unfair, that's not necessarily in the "best interest" of THAT game at THAT particular time. (I know that sounds stupid to most of you but that's the reality of NCAA post season games in this day in age)

3. Dumping both of those kids would have been front page news and would have been one of the only things talked about after that game (ie, NC State loses after HP Umpire ejects Starting P & Catcher of game). We all know that's BS but that is how baseball people think and the media would have had a field day with it. One of the common criticisms of officials is that we need to let the "players decide the outcome of the game". Right or wrong, that's exactly what Burley did in this situation and I can guarantee you that he was praised by Gene McCartor and the NCAA "brass" after the game (despite what many umpires feel he should have done)

4. Players (or "student athletes" as they are commonly referred to, lol) often react on emotion and their behavior is held to lower standards because they are 'kids". Officials, on the other hand, are adults that are held to a much higher standard and expected to keep their composure at all times, regardless of how bad players and coaches act. Unfortunately, this also means that in certain rare situations, like the play we're talking about, we are expected to be "more understanding" of how important these games are to the "kids". Yes, I know, its a bunch of BS and an excuse that allows them to act inappropriately and get away with it. Again, this is a sign of the times because if I would have acted in that manner when I played ball growing up, my COACH would have taken me out of the game and my dad would have beat my a$$ when I got home.

5. I could go on and on but while all of you make good points as to why they should have been dumped... ultimately, I think Burleson made the right decision at that particular time, with those particular players involved and with the magnitude of that particular game. Don't get me wrong, he would have also been right to eject them but that decision may have not set very well with the NCAA people... the same one's that make the umpire selections and pay them almost $5,000 to officiate the CWS. Sometime, the saying... "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" is something you follow - even when you don't necessarily agree with some of the direction given.

Well said. That explains a lot. Thanks for posting that.