Ball out of play

[Jdotmozy]

With Arencibia catching that foul ball then falling into the dugout why is this rule never enforced?

Rule 7.04(c) Comment: If a fielder, after having made a legal catch, should fall into a stand or among spectators or into the dugout or any other out-of-play area while in possession of the ball after making a legal catch, or fall while in the dugout after making a legal catch, the ball is dead and each runner shall advance one base, without liability to be put out, from his last legally touched base at the time the fielder fell into, or in, such out-of-play area.

[Jdotmozy]

2013/05/28 Arencibia's great catch - YouTube

[APG]

Two things:

1.) It's more convenient for most if you embed YouTube and other clips when possible.

2.) I don't believe your clip is available in the United States. This message pops up whenever you click on the link: "The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Jdotmozy

With Arencibia catching that foul ball then falling into the dugout why is this rule never enforced?

Rule 7.04(c) Comment: If a fielder, after having made a legal catch, should fall into a stand or among spectators or into the dugout or any other out-of-play area while in possession of the ball after making a legal catch, or fall while in the dugout after making a legal catch, the ball is dead and each runner shall advance one base, without liability to be put out, from his last legally touched base at the time the fielder fell into, or in, such out-of-play area.

Since your video doesn't work here, can you describe the play? We see the rule you refer to enforced all the time.

[Jdotmozy]

Sorry posting from Japan. YouTube Arencibia great catch. If not... with 1 out and s runner on 2nd Heyward fouled off a ball towards the jays bench, Arencibia makes the catch by the railing of the dugout and falls in. Clearly dead ball territory. Yet the base runner is not awarded third. The jays announcers even mention him coming back out of the dugout so the runner doesn't advance.

I know the call is made at the high school level, not sure how its enforced at ncaa, But I can't ever recall that rule enforced during a MLB game.

[Robert E. Harrison]

Arencibia great catch. He did not fall into the dugout. He stayed on his feet the entire catch. He caught the ball and negotiated the railing without falling. Catch and carry. He is allowed to come out throwing.
I found the clip on MLB at ATL@TOR

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Jdotmozy

Sorry posting from Japan. YouTube Arencibia great catch. If not... with 1 out and s runner on 2nd Heyward fouled off a ball towards the jays bench, Arencibia makes the catch by the railing of the dugout and falls in. Clearly dead ball territory. Yet the base runner is not awarded third. The jays announcers even mention him coming back out of the dugout so the runner doesn't advance.

I know the call is made at the high school level, not sure how its enforced at ncaa, But I can't ever recall that rule enforced during a MLB game.

Describe "falls in"... the MLB catch and carry rule you quote only applies in the dugout when they actually FALL... as in, do not remain on their feet. Obviously it also applies when they land in the stands over a railing, etc. It is the latter that we see called quite regularly.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison

Arencibia great catch. He did not fall into the dugout. He stayed on his feet the entire catch. He caught the ball and negotiated the railing without falling. Catch and carry. He is allowed to come out throwing.
I found the clip on MLB at ATL@TOR

Except for "catch and carry", this is all correct.

[Robert E. Harrison]

I have always thought of the catch and carry rule as: If the field catches the ball with at least one foot in LBT or jumped from LBT and maintains his footing in DBT he can come out throwing. If he falls, then the ball is dead and runners advance. He did enter the dugout after making the catch and came out with the ball.

Just as an aside: FED rules do not allow catch and carry. The ball is dead immediately and one base award if unintentional and 2 base award if intentional.

[Manny A]

Here's the link. Sorry, but I don't know how to embed videos.

Video | MLB.com Multimedia



The appropriate OBR rule is 5.10(f):

[It's a dead ball] "When a fielder, after catching a fly ball, falls into a bench or stand, or falls across ropes into a crowd when spectators are on the field. As pertains to runners, the provisions of 7.04(c) shall prevail.

"If a fielder after making a catch steps into a bench, but does not fall, the ball is in play and runners may advance at their own peril."

There is no such thing as "catch and carry" under OBR. I believe this only exists in FED ball (not sure about NCAA).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison

I have always thought of the catch and carry rule as: If the field catches the ball with at least one foot in LBT or jumped from LBT and maintains his footing in DBT he can come out throwing. If he falls, then the ball is dead and runners advance. He did enter the dugout after making the catch and came out with the ball.

Just as an aside: FED rules do not allow catch and carry. The ball is dead immediately and one base award if unintentional and 2 base award if intentional.

You've got the rule right, but the terminology backward.

"Catch and carry" is when you catch it in LBT, securing the out, but then carry it into DBT, giving any runners a base.

Arencibia caught it, but did not fall, and can throw it out, as you stated --- because he did NOT "catch and carry".

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by Manny A

...(not sure about NCAA).

NCAA is similar to OBR, only difference is that if the player slides purposefully into DBT and stands up while in DBT, he is not considered to have fallen.

[Manny A]

Since we're on the subject, and because I don't have my references handy, is there a requirement to properly tag up on the 7.04 situation?

For example, suppose Arencibia did fall into the dugout after making the catch. R1 and R2 would have been awarded one base. But once the award is made, do they need to go back and tag up if they were off the base during the catch?

My gut tells me they do. After all, the ball was legally caught.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Since we're on the subject, and because I don't have my references handy, is there a requirement to properly tag up on the 7.04 situation?

For example, suppose Arencibia did fall into the dugout after making the catch. R1 and R2 would have been awarded one base. But once the award is made, do they need to go back and tag up if they were off the base during the catch?

My gut tells me they do. After all, the ball was legally caught.

Absolutely.

[RonTberry]

Coach not an umpire so I don't pretend to know rules as well as you guys. But why would they have to tag up if its an automatic award for a rule violation? Wouldn't it be similar to throwing a ball into stands or dugout? I know it was caught in air but if they can advance without liability to be out out why the need to tag. Thanks in advance for your answers. Always trying to learn more.