Advance on appeal

[frozenrope22]

Runner on 2nd and 3rd. Fly ball to outfield is caught and runners tag and advance. Play resumes and pitcher executes a proper appeal to third base. However, after indicating the appeal pitcher then wildly throws the ball over third basemans head. Runner on third advances to home and scores on the throwing error.
Defensive coach complains that runner can't advance on appeal play but umpire rules runner can advance at own peril.
Who is correct?

[Ump29]

The umpire is correct.

[frozenrope22]

Thx. Found lots of info on appeals but none about runners advancing on the appeal.

[JJ]

With the exception of FED (and their "dead-ball appeal"), the ball is live during appeals. Any runner may advance at his own risk. Fun stuff when it happens...

JJ

[rbmartin]

What ruleset are we playing under here? How many outs were there before the play began?

[bob jenkins]

Note that in FED and OBR (but not in NCAA), the defense can still appeal R3 leaving early. If the appeal is upheld then R3's run won't count and if the appeal is the third out, then R2's run won't count either.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Note that in FED and OBR (but not in NCAA), the defense can still appeal R3 leaving early. If the appeal is upheld then R3's run won't count and if the appeal is the third out, then R2's run won't count either.

In NCAA is the second appeal of the same runner considered multiple appeals?What if they just retrieved the errant ball and threw it to 3B?

That NCAA rule is confusing to me.

"(3) The defensive team receives only one chance on an appeal. In the case of multiple appeals, if the defense errs during its first appeal attempt or any base runner advances, the defense loses its right to appeal any runner at any base."

How would it apply during live action appeals of leaving early on a fly ball where 2 runners are appealed successively while, let's say R3 advances.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjim

In NCAA is the second appeal of the same runner considered multiple appeals?What if they just retrieved the errant ball and threw it to 3B?

That NCAA rule is confusing to me.

"(3) The defensive team receives only one chance on an appeal. In the case of multiple appeals, if the defense errs during its first appeal attempt or any base runner advances, the defense loses its right to appeal any runner at any base."

How would it apply during live action appeals of leaving early on a fly ball where 2 runners are appealed successively while, let's say R3 advances.

Strange as it may be, they do treat live action appeals differently than relaxed action appeals. The rule you quote refers to relaxed action.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpjim

In NCAA is the second appeal of the same runner considered multiple appeals?What if they just retrieved the errant ball and threw it to 3B?

That NCAA rule is confusing to me.

"(3) The defensive team receives only one chance on an appeal. In the case of multiple appeals, if the defense errs during its first appeal attempt or any base runner advances, the defense loses its right to appeal any runner at any base."

How would it apply during live action appeals of leaving early on a fly ball where 2 runners are appealed successively while, let's say R3 advances.

To "err" in OBR, the ball must be thrown out of play.

To "err" in NCAA, the ball must be overthrown (not necessarily out of play) and a runner must advance.

There's no "err" in FED appeals.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

To "err" in OBR, the ball must be thrown out of play.

To "err" in NCAA, the ball must be overthrown (not necessarily out of play) and a runner must advance.

There's no "err" in FED appeals.

You got me digging in NCAA.

While the overthrow is an "err", in the OP it seems NCAA would not allow the appeal due to a runner advancing.

"(5) If the defensive team errs on an appeal play and the ball remains in liveball territory, the appeal will be allowed if:
(a) The ball immediately is returned to the base being appealed; and
(b) No runners advance on the misplay. If a runner(s) advances, no appeal
shall be allowed."

Also where do they specify that some of the 8-6-b provisions do not apply during unrelaxed action? It makes sense and I would not think of applying them during unrelaxed action but is it codified somewhere.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjim

You got me digging in NCAA.

While the overthrow is an "err", in the OP it seems NCAA would not allow the run due to a runner advancing.

"(5) If the defensive team errs on an appeal play and the ball remains in liveball territory, the appeal will be allowed if:
(a) The ball immediately is returned to the base being appealed; and
(b) No runners advance on the misplay. If a runner(s) advances, no appeal
shall be allowed."

This is quite confusing. What am I not understanding? It appears to me (still 1 coffee short of minimum for the morning!) you're saying NCAA would allow the appeal and disallow the run, and then you quote the rule that says they would NOT allow the appeal.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpjim

You got me digging in NCAA.

While the overthrow is an "err", in the OP it seems NCAA would not allow the appeal due to a runner advancing.

"(5) If the defensive team errs on an appeal play and the ball remains in liveball territory, the appeal will be allowed if:
(a) The ball immediately is returned to the base being appealed; and
(b) No runners advance on the misplay. If a runner(s) advances, no appeal
shall be allowed."

yes -- that's what I said (or meant to say at least).

[MD Longhorn]

Ah... you changed a rather crucial word there. I get you, and agree with you, now.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Ah... you changed a rather crucial word there. I get you, and agree with you, now.

Yes, I meant to type appeal but run came out due to a brainfart.