Base Abandonment on the Final Play

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Correct.

You sure about that? I thought the force was determined at the time the base is missed, not when the appeal is made.

R1, R3, one out. The batter singles, R3 scores, and R1 misses 2nd base on his way to 3rd. The B/R is thrown out trying for 2. The defense appeals R1's miss.

Does the run score?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

You sure about that? I thought the force was determined at the time the base is missed, not when the appeal is made.

R1, R3, one out. The batter singles, R3 scores, and R1 misses 2nd base on his way to 3rd. The B/R is thrown out trying for 2. The defense appeals R1's miss.

Does the run score?

I thought that's was correct, too, and even remembered a thread about it recently. Turns out it was on the softball board. Still would like clarification in regards to baseball, though.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

You sure about that? I thought the force was determined at the time the base is missed, not when the appeal is made.

R1, R3, one out. The batter singles, R3 scores, and R1 misses 2nd base on his way to 3rd. The B/R is thrown out trying for 2. The defense appeals R1's miss.

Does the run score?

The play in the OP has nothing at all to do with missed base appeals... it's simply a force play on a runner who has not achieved the base they were forced to ... and in the case where R1 is put out first, R2 no longer has to go to 3rd base at all, and can't be forced at 3rd (or appealed for that matter...)

The OP does not say the runners run past their bases and then join the celebration ... they simply don't run to their bases at all. Completely different from your missed base appeal situation.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The play in the OP has nothing at all to do with missed base appeals

And my question to Bob had nothing to do with the OP.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

And my question to Bob had nothing to do with the OP.

You are the one that made the comparison. You said, "are you sure about that", with "that" being his answer to a question related to the OP. Then you compared that with a missed base appeal situation.

I'm pointing out that your comparison is not applicable.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

You sure about that? I thought the force was determined at the time the base is missed, not when the appeal is made.

R1, R3, one out. The batter singles, R3 scores, and R1 misses 2nd base on his way to 3rd. The B/R is thrown out trying for 2. The defense appeals R1's miss.

Does the run score?

This play is also correct.

There's a difference between an out made during "unrelaxed action" and the order of appeals during "relaxed action."

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

This play is also correct.

There's a difference between an out made during "unrelaxed action" and the order of appeals during "relaxed action."

I don't know what you mean by "correct." My question was: Does the run score?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

I don't know what you mean by "correct." My question was: Does the run score?

Nice... you asked that, he answered, then you deleted your question... when he deleted his answer, you ask again?

Nice.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

I don't know what you mean by "correct." My question was: Does the run score?

the run does NOT score in your play.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Nice... you asked that, he answered, then you deleted your question... when he deleted his answer, you ask again?

Nice.

I'm sure it was just a timing issue -- he deleted his first post before my response was posted.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

the run does NOT score in your play.

Right - the appeal is a force because the runner was forced at the time the base was missed, despite the B/R having been put out before the appeal was made. In jTheUmp's example, the only way the order of appeals matters is if the force is (retroactively) removed by an appeal.

Is there an official interp. for this? I can't find it in the rule book or the MLBUM.

[rampro]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Right - the appeal is a force because the runner was forced at the time the base was missed, despite the B/R having been put out before the appeal was made. In jTheUmp's example, the only way the order of appeals matters is if the force is (retroactively) removed by an appeal.

Is there an official interp. for this? I can't find it in the rule book or the MLBUM.

According to J/R the order of appeals does not matter if the runner was forced at the time the base was missed.

If a consecutive runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner, and he is forced at the moment he misses his advance base, an appeal of that base is always a force out. EG: bases loaded, one out. The batter triples. R1 missed second and the batter-runner missed first. First, the defense successfully appeals against the batter-runner, then R1. The appeal of the batter-runner does not negate the fact that R1 was forced when he missed the base. R1's appeal out (third out) is also a force out; R2 and R3's runs are negated.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Right - the appeal is a force because the runner was forced at the time the base was missed, despite the B/R having been put out before the appeal was made. In jTheUmp's example, the only way the order of appeals matters is if the force is (retroactively) removed by an appeal.

Is there an official interp. for this? I can't find it in the rule book or the MLBUM.

According to 2008 BRD (Section 12), Fed has it in 2003 interp #4, and 2006 interps #12 and #13. I seem to recall it being more recent thatn that as well. I don't have time to look it up tonight.

For OBR it has "email from PBUC staff" (but the same ruling)