fair/foul - then catch/no-catch

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Rich

If I'm R3 and there's a ball hit in the air to the outfield, I'm going back to tag.

If it falls, I walk home. If it's caught as a trouble ball, I walk home.

What if it's a looper behind 1st base, in short right field? The right fielder is running in and makes the catch. You're not going tag up on that. Too shallow. You'll get thrown out by a mile.

On a hit like that, tagging up would be a mistake. Because if you go back to the bag and wait to see what happens - if it's not caught, you will probably not be able to score because you have to run 90 feet. The ball may very well get picked up in plenty of time to throw you out.

You're going want to get quite a distance off 3rd so, if it drops, you can get home before the ball can be picked up. If it's caught, you can get back to 3rd safely. You usually don't tag up on shallow hits into the outfield. You get off the bag so that if it drops, you can score.

What you've described would be correct on a ball hit deep down the right field line.

But now we're talking more about how the game is played than how the game is umpired.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

What if it's a looper behind 1st base, in short right field? The right fielder is running in and makes the catch. You're not going tag up on that. Too shallow. You'll get thrown out by a mile.

On a hit like that, tagging up would be a mistake. Because if you go back to the bag and wait to see what happens - if it's not caught, you will probably not be able to score because you have to run 90 feet. The ball may very well get picked up in plenty of time to throw you out.

You're going want to get quite a distance off 3rd so, if it drops, you can get home before the ball can be picked up. If it's caught, you can get back to 3rd safely. You usually don't tag up on shallow hits into the outfield. You get off the bag so that if it drops, you can score.

What you've described would be correct on a ball hit deep down the right field line.

But now we're talking more about how the game is played than how the game is umpired.

Regardless of which mechanic you'd like to see first, if it's a catch I'm going to make sure all elements of a catch are present (including voluntary release) before signaling an out. That's not going to happen quickly on a play like this regardless -- I'll have plenty of time to signal fair first before calling the runner out. If the ball hits the ground, I'm pointing fair quickly and then selling the "no catch" part of the sequence.

So I'm not sure how we're putting anyone at a great disservice here.

[Steven Tyler]

Do some want to signal no catch on a dropped foul fly ball?

[CT1]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Do some want to signal no catch on a dropped foul fly ball?

I do, if it's obviously foul and it's a close catch/no catch. Usually happens when F2 goes to the screen or dives toward a fence.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by CT1

I do, if it's obviously foul and it's a close catch/no catch. Usually happens when F2 goes to the screen or dives toward a fence.

Wouldn't just a foul signal suffice? Nobody going anywhere on a "dropped" foul ball regardless.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Wouldn't just a foul signal suffice? Nobody going anywhere on a "dropped" foul ball regardless.

My thoughts exactly. In fact, this is one of the few instances where a verbal FOUL call is actually helpful.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Wouldn't just a foul signal suffice? Nobody going anywhere on a "dropped" foul ball regardless.

It's just the way I was trained, & I don't really see a problem with the "no catch" signal. Remember, this would be on a ball that's in obviously foul territory -- the kind where you'd give no signal if someone weren't trying to make a play on it.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by CT1

It's just the way I was trained, & I don't really see a problem with the "no catch" signal. Remember, this would be on a ball that's in obviously foul territory -- the kind where you'd give no signal if someone weren't trying to make a play on it.

CT1, I am not ganging up here but, I believe that is the point being made here,obviously foul territory. Its either caught or a dead ball. If its a dead ball, it just doesn't matter what happens next.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

It's just the way I was trained, & I don't really see a problem with the "no catch" signal. Remember, this would be on a ball that's in obviously foul territory -- the kind where you'd give no signal if someone weren't trying to make a play on it.

The "correct" call is "FOUL BALL" or "FOUL". Kills the play clearly and concisely.

A "no catch" signal is really meant for fair balls where play is continuing and a loud call by an umpire would be disruptive.