High school fake to 3rd play

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

can someone explain how someone can fake to 3rd and throw to first without disengaging? In my case i was trying to describe the pitcher stepped to 3rd with his left ft, followed thru and his right foot came off ending up parallel with his left, he then turned and threw to first.

could he fake a throw to 3rd without stepping with an arm fake and then reverse and throw to first? if so he doesnt need to step back off the rubber?

or is there some other way to fake the throw and not disengage?

A feint requires a step, but doesn't require arm motion.

You can feint without coming off the rubber. Go ahead -- try it in your living room / den / office. Step ahead then stop, and pivot back the other way.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

can someone explain how someone can fake to 3rd and throw to first without disengaging?

Imagine a VERY VERY small step toward third without committing one's balance in that direction. Then immediately pushing off the free foot back toward first and literally spinning to throw.

Like has been said here a bunch ... I've never seed it live. I've seen it in training videos, and each one looks like the pitcher is uncomfortable and in pain trying to execute this move we never ever really see to illustrate a rule we never ever need to use.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

the Umps ruled it one base, and said there is no appeal possible on the play. If it was a two base error that would seem to be a rule interpretation and appeal-able?

it felt like it should be a two base error .

Maybe he wouldn't let you appeal, (question the interpretation of the rule), for the same reason he got the call wrong. He didn't know the rule.

[RPatrino]

The term "disengage" is really a misnomer. There is no physical way a pitcher can fake or make pick offs without physically disengaging the rubber. For the purposes of ruling on over throws out of play, we consider a pick off 'from the rubber' if the pitcher doesn't actually step backwards off the rubber, no? Any pick off where the pitcher stays in front of the rubber can be considered, 'from the rubber', at least for the purposes of pick-offs to first.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

The term "disengage" is really a misnomer. There is no physical way a pitcher can fake or make pick offs without physically disengaging the rubber. For the purposes of ruling on over throws out of play, we consider a pick off 'from the rubber' if the pitcher doesn't actually step backwards off the rubber, no? Any pick off where the pitcher stays in front of the rubber can be considered, 'from the rubber', at least for the purposes of pick-offs to first.

Not really, on the move in question, or really on any move where you start to throw toward 2nd or 3rd and don't actually throw... it doesn't matter which direction you "disengage" to (in fact, when failing to throw to third, you usually disengage toward third ... and definitely not "backward off the rubber") - you have disengaged. Normally - who cares... but should the throw back to first go out of play, it does matter.

[RPatrino]

Of course it matters, and that was my point. On the fake 3rd to 1st move, with the ball thrown out of play, you will award 1 base? Or 2?

On a straight pick off move, righty to first who steps back off the rubber and throws out of play, 1 or 2 bases?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Of course it matters, and that was my point. On the fake 3rd to 1st move, with the ball thrown out of play, you will award 1 base? Or 2?

Um ... depends on if they disengage. What exactly are you saying?

Sounded like you were saying that unless you step back first, you're not disengaging. That's what I was disagreeing with. This move can be done by disengaging TOWARD THIRD (your foot comes off) ... and in fact almost every time, it does. If you don't then throw to 1st, no balk. If you do and it goes out of play - 2 bases.

This move can also be done without disengaging - keeping your foot on the rubber. (I said earlier we don't really see this, other than on video ... but it's possible) If you don't step off the rubber - and then don't throw to first it's a balk ... and if the ball goes out of play, 1 base.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

On a straight pick off move, righty to first who steps back off the rubber and throws out of play, 1 or 2 bases?

Two bases.