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High school fake to 3rd play
runners on first and third. right hand pitcher steps towards 3rd, fakes the throw, turns and throws towards first, and throws it out of bounds.. How many bases does the runner on first get.
does it mean he has stepped off the rubber so its a two base error? does he have to step back off the rubber for that to be a two base error? the Umps ruled it one base, and said there is no appeal possible on the play. If it was a two base error that would seem to be a rule interpretation and appeal-able? it felt like it should be a two base error . |
Depends on what the pitcher did. If he broke contact with the rubber on the fake to third, then it's a two base award. If he didn't then it's a one base award. 99% of the time it's the former.
Note that in NCAA, the pitcher had to break contact, or it would have been a balk to throw to first. (And, in OBR, the fake itself to third is a balk.) |
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Thats how we felt at the time that he had to disengage to throw to first.. It was also kind of confusing when the opposing coach argued its only one base because the runner was not half way to 2nd when the ball went out of bounds..
My thought on that was maybe some Kick ball rule? |
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I recognize that the OP said "HS" and not "FED". |
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can someone explain how someone can fake to 3rd and throw to first without disengaging? In my case i was trying to describe the pitcher stepped to 3rd with his left ft, followed thru and his right foot came off ending up parallel with his left, he then turned and threw to first.
could he fake a throw to 3rd without stepping with an arm fake and then reverse and throw to first? if so he doesnt need to step back off the rubber? or is there some other way to fake the throw and not disengage? |
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You can feint without coming off the rubber. Go ahead -- try it in your living room / den / office. Step ahead then stop, and pivot back the other way. |
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Like has been said here a bunch ... I've never seed it live. I've seen it in training videos, and each one looks like the pitcher is uncomfortable and in pain trying to execute this move we never ever really see to illustrate a rule we never ever need to use. |
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The term "disengage" is really a misnomer. There is no physical way a pitcher can fake or make pick offs without physically disengaging the rubber. For the purposes of ruling on over throws out of play, we consider a pick off 'from the rubber' if the pitcher doesn't actually step backwards off the rubber, no? Any pick off where the pitcher stays in front of the rubber can be considered, 'from the rubber', at least for the purposes of pick-offs to first.
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Of course it matters, and that was my point. On the fake 3rd to 1st move, with the ball thrown out of play, you will award 1 base? Or 2?
On a straight pick off move, righty to first who steps back off the rubber and throws out of play, 1 or 2 bases? |
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Sounded like you were saying that unless you step back first, you're not disengaging. That's what I was disagreeing with. This move can be done by disengaging TOWARD THIRD (your foot comes off) ... and in fact almost every time, it does. If you don't then throw to 1st, no balk. If you do and it goes out of play - 2 bases. This move can also be done without disengaging - keeping your foot on the rubber. (I said earlier we don't really see this, other than on video ... but it's possible) If you don't step off the rubber - and then don't throw to first it's a balk ... and if the ball goes out of play, 1 base. |
Don't worry, no thesis here
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