Ignore or Address?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm curious, how could he be speaking to his runner?

Easy, you don't assume! OFC talks to his players unless he proves to you that he was doing otherwise. Maybe the OFC doesn't say what you are used to hearing and that is none of your concern. As I stated, if F1 balks and in my judgement it was due to what the OFC said, he's either seated or gone.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Easy, you don't assume! OFC talks to his players unless he proves to you that he was doing otherwise. Maybe the OFC doesn't say what you are used to hearing and that is none of your concern. As I stated, if F1 balks and in my judgement it was due to what the OFC said, he's either seated or gone.

If you're going to shut down the coach for causing the pitcher to balk, you've got to shut him down if he says the same thing and the pitcher doesn't balk.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

If you're going to shut down the coach for causing the pitcher to balk, you've got to shut him down if he says the same thing and the pitcher doesn't balk.

Agreed. And, "shutting down" can be different from ejecting / restricting, etc. Maybe just a look. Maybe a quiet comment on the coach's way back to the dugout after the inning.

It depends on the umpire and the coach and the coach's reaction to what he said.

[RPatrino]

There is a lot of stuff that we do that is 'preventative', that we many not penalize or even warn officially. This is one of those things. Maybe just a purposeful glance down at the coach when we heard this would have been enough. I have learned through tough experience that when I ignore something, it will come back to bite me.

I'm not sure what "step off, he's going" has to do with base running, perhaps its a new code? I didn't just fall off the meat truck, and I think we all know what he was doing.

[MD Longhorn]

I guess I'm having the most trouble with the leap between this coach issuing instructions toward, assumedly, the opposing pitcher and knowing his INTENT. Sounds to me like the instructions, had those instructions been followed by the pitcher, would NOT have resulted in a balk. (He's allowed to step off from the stretch when in the set position). So somehow we're to assume that these words, directed toward the pitcher, which would not have caused a balk had they been followed, were somehow an attempt to make him balk.

Huh?

Seems the opposite to me - an attempt to muddy the air, to perhaps get him to IGNORE those instructions later when given by his own coach, or at least to hesitate if he should hear them. Crappy? Yeah. Illegal? No, not really.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I guess I'm having the most trouble with the leap between this coach issuing instructions toward, assumedly, the opposing pitcher and knowing his INTENT. Sounds to me like the instructions, had those instructions been followed by the pitcher, would NOT have resulted in a balk. (He's allowed to step off from the stretch when in the set position). So somehow we're to assume that these words, directed toward the pitcher, which would not have caused a balk had they been followed, were somehow an attempt to make him balk.

Huh?

Seems the opposite to me - an attempt to muddy the air, to perhaps get him to IGNORE those instructions later when given by his own coach, or at least to hesitate if he should hear them. Crappy? Yeah. Illegal? No, not really.

Even under that....frankly, most generous of interpretations, it's still unsporting and needs to get shut down. Either he's trying to get the pitcher to balk or trying to confuse an opponent by masquerading as his own coach? I guess there's a third and the only innocent option here, that he forgot which team he was on, but short of that? Shut it down.

[jicecone]

Many years ago I was working a men's league that one particular coach/manager/player always was having a bad day. He would constantly say things indirectly to irritate you and when you responded he would say things like "Do you have "Rabbit Ears Bule". I learned to ignor him unless he got personal, then I properly applied the penalty accordingly.

One time I worked with a partner that actully wore a small set of Rabbit Ears under his hat hoping this coach would recite his famous question. Lo and behold he did and my partner took off his hat and said, "as a matter of fact I do and your out of here." Funniest thing I ever saw but, true story.

I believe in "preventive officiating" but sometimes, unless you are truly wearing "rabbit ears", don't go there unless you can clearly discern intent.

Just my opinion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Many years ago I was working a men's league that one particular coach/manager/player always was having a bad day. He would constantly say things indirectly to irritate you and when you responded he would say things like "Do you have "Rabbit Ears Bule". I learned to ignor him unless he got personal, then I properly applied the penalty accordingly.

One time I worked with a partner that actully wore a small set of Rabbit Ears under his hat hoping this coach would recite his famous question. Lo and behold he did and my partner took off his hat and said, "as a matter of fact I do and your out of here." Funniest thing I ever saw but, true story.

I believe in "preventive officiating" but sometimes, unless you are truly wearing "rabbit ears", don't go there unless you can clearly discern intent.

Just my opinion.

I agree, in theory, but the fact is there are some things where intent is as clear as day. Frankly, the rabbit ears claim is ridiculous. If it's loud enough for me to hear it, you're talking to me: especially if it's about the officiating. Similarly, the comments in the OP were pretty clearly directed towards the opposing team.

Whether they should be addressed or not is outside my area of expertise, but I have a hard time believing anyone really doubts the intent here.

[jicecone]

And if that is how you judge it for your game, I can live that.

Have a good Day

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

There is a lot of stuff that we do that is 'preventative', that we many not penalize or even warn officially. This is one of those things. Maybe just a purposeful glance down at the coach when we heard this would have been enough. I have learned through tough experience that when I ignore something, it will come back to bite me.

I'm not sure what "step off, he's going" has to do with base running, perhaps its a new code? I didn't just fall off the meat truck, and I think we all know what he was doing.

This type of situation will likely only happened one time per game, so what's a glare or a warning going to do? If he got away w/ it one time that's a victory for the coach.

Why would an offensive coach be given advice to the defense coach?

[Steven Tyler]

If you can ASS-U-ME the coach was talking to his runners, you really don't have much concept of the game.

I would just shut him down after the comment. I'd take my chances on being wrong by not assuming there might be 99.9% of the coach not talking to his runners.

[MD Longhorn]

I was not assuming he was talking to his runners. But even so, saying what he said is no different from telling the pitcher to throw a fastball or a curve. If you felt what he was doing was unsportsmanlike, address it. But stretching this to mean he's trying to draw a balk (thus incurring the ejection) is a HUGE stretch in my book.