How would you address this with your partner?

[umpjong]

Sr. Legion baseball, R2 picked off of second. R2 comes in hard standing. BU calls him out and sternly warns the runner that he was very close to malicious contact but leaves it at that. As retired R2 heads towards dugout, PU ejects him for malicious contact.

I was not one of the umpires involved, but witnessed it. Had I been involved I would have huddled up with PU and told him it had been handled and to correct his overstep. Then after the game had a discussion of responsibilities. Really made BU look bad. Both umpires have been umpiring for many years....

[johnnyg08]

Tough one...

I suppose it should be something to pregame...if your partner is going to overstep your territory, agree that you'll come together and talk about a potential EJ from outside of his area before giving somebody the hook.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Sr. Legion baseball, R2 picked off of second. R2 comes in hard standing.

More info needed. Did R2 knock F4/F6 into the "cheap seats" ?

BU calls him out and sternly warns the runner that he was very close to malicious contact but leaves it at that.

What is "very close to MC" mean? We either have MC or not. If we do not have MC then the BU should say nothing to the runner. That's like saying "it's close to a balk" and then the BU having a chat with F1 about it.

If R2 knocked F4/F6 into the "cheap seats" and the BU did NOTHING about it then I can see the PU Ejecting R2 to keep control over the game.

In a nutshell IMO more info needed.

Pete Booth

[umpjong]

In my opinion, no malicious contact, but when runner went in there was enough contact that fielder fell over on his butt. 220 pounds vs. 150. No shove, just momentum of runner.

The point was also to determine what reaction you would have if this occurred to you as BU regardless of degree of the contact. You had already judged it and your partner came in and over ruled you on it...

[jkumpire]

"Hey (PU), why did you eject #12?"

Then it becomes a conversation based on his answer. Let's say the originator is right and he did eject him for MC.

"You know, (PU), the MC call is mine to make, why did you poach it?"

On the field, you can't overrule your partner on something like this. Nor can you eject someone when he is standing in front of your partner on a play that's not yours.

But after the game, you take care of the problem.

[johnnyg08]

Big vs. little does not mean malicious contact. Just like little vs. big could mean malicious contact...a player could "lose" and still have MC called on him.

Not implying that you'd necessarily disagree...just saying.

[MD Longhorn]

It amazes me how many umpires out there don't understand that the word malicious comes from the word MALICE. Hard contact is not necessarily malicious, in fact --- you can knock someone "into the cheap seats" and not have it be malice (just as you can have a far lesser collision and HAVE MC). Malice implies intent.

First mistake here as mentioned above - there's no such thing as almost malicious. Either there was malice or there was not. There's no warning here.

Second - and worse - mistake. PU should have minded his own business. If this happens to me as BU, I immediately go talk it over with him. I suppose it's possible he saw something I didn't, like a punch attempt I was blocked from... but this isn't likely. This is NOT his call and you already made the call. YOUR call is the one that stands. BU looks like an idiot here, but it was PU who was most likely the idiot.

[dileonardoja]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

It amazes me how many umpires out there don't understand that the word malicious comes from the word MALICE. Hard contact is not necessarily malicious, in fact --- you can knock someone "into the cheap seats" and not have it be malice (just as you can have a far lesser collision and HAVE MC). Malice implies intent.

First mistake here as mentioned above - there's no such thing as almost malicious. Either there was malice or there was not. There's no warning here.

Second - and worse - mistake. PU should have minded his own business. If this happens to me as BU, I immediately go talk it over with him. I suppose it's possible he saw something I didn't, like a punch attempt I was blocked from... but this isn't likely. This is NOT his call and you already made the call. YOUR call is the one that stands. BU looks like an idiot here, but it was PU who was most likely the idiot.

+1. That's hitting the nail on the Head on every aspect

[JRutledge]

How do you know that the player was ejected for MC? Did you talk to the guy after the game?

And if I was not his partner, I would not do anything unless I knew that was what the ejection was for. And likely would not have had that conversation until after the game. I have no idea what someone specifically ejects someone for until after the game unless it is obvious. It sounds like some words might have been exchanged and that was what the ejection was actually for. But then again how do we know if you do not talk to the guy personally?

Peace

[DG]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Sr. Legion baseball, R2 picked off of second. R2 comes in hard standing. BU calls him out and sternly warns the runner that he was very close to malicious contact but leaves it at that. As retired R2 heads towards dugout, PU ejects him for malicious contact.

I was not one of the umpires involved, but witnessed it. Had I been involved I would have huddled up with PU and told him it had been handled and to correct his overstep. Then after the game had a discussion of responsibilities. Really made BU look bad. Both umpires have been umpiring for many years....

"Don't ever throw me under the bus again, without so much as a discussion about it". Whatever opportunity you get to say it, let him know you not pleased.

[kylejt]

What was call is not the issue.

A pregame wouldn't have covered this. This is common sense and protocol. You don't make this call after a warning from your partner. You just don't.

The question is: So now what?

Well, as the BU you're going to have to back up your partner during the game. You can't(shouldn't) unring this bell. After the game you can take him apart, limb from limb.

"What the Hell, over. I had that call, and the warning. Why on Earth are pulling the trap door on me on that one? I'm right there, and didn't miss a thing. It was a judgment call, my judgment call."

"You're buying the beer tonight, mate"

[dash_riprock]

Sometimes you have to let it be.

Tonight I was PU, 1 out, R1, R2, batter lines one up the middle. F6 gloves it running toward 2B, opens his glove, plays the bounce, then tags the runner then the base. My partner has 2. I was sure it was an intentional drop but my partner was right in front of it. There is no way he could not have seen it and formulated his own opinion. I'm not stepping on that call. If he wants my help I will give it to him but not until then.

[JaxRolo]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Sometimes you have to let it be.

Tonight I was PU, 1 out, R1, R2, batter lines one up the middle. F6 gloves it running toward 2B, opens his glove, plays the bounce, then tags the runner then the base. My partner has 2. I was sure it was an intentional drop but my partner was right in front of it. There is no way he could not have seen it and formulated his own opinion. I'm not stepping on that call. If he wants my help I will give it to him but not until then.

Pardon my ignorance but a line drive is not an IFF so is there something wrong in dropping it intentionally?

[UmpJM]

Jax,

6.05 A batter is out when—

(l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;

APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

JM

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by JaxRolo

Pardon my ignorance but a line drive is not an IFF so is there something wrong in dropping it intentionally?

Yes. The ball is dead, the batter is out and runners return.