Passed Runner

[LeeBallanfant]

ML Rules

Bases loaded, one out. Batter hits soft liner to RF who traps ball, R3 easily scores, but R2 thinking ball was caught retreats to his original bases and R1 confused stops a few feet short of 2B and starts to go back to 1B. Defence now throws to 3B for the force out. After force out at 3B, BR passes the retreating R1 between 1B and 2B and is called out.
There is a throw made to 2B for the force there, but it is after BR has been called out for the third out.

Does the run count?

[yawetag]

Once BR is called out, the force is removed. Therefore, the throw to 2B wouldn't be a force out anyway. Not that it matters, the passing would be the third out.

Run scores.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

ML Rules

Bases loaded, one out. Batter hits soft liner to RF who traps ball, R3 easily scores, but R2 thinking ball was caught retreats to his original bases and R1 confused stops a few feet short of 2B and starts to go back to 1B. Defence now throws to 3B for the force out. After force out at 3B, BR passes the retreating R1 between 1B and 2B and is called out.
There is a throw made to 2B for the force there, but it is after BR has been called out for the third out.

Does the run count?

The out on the B-R removed the force on R1 so there is now no force at 2B.

The out on the B-R was the third out.

There is no possible 4th out force play appeal now because the force was removed.

The run counts.

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

The out on the B-R removed the force on R1 so there is now no force at 2B.

The out on the B-R was the third out.

There is no possible 4th out force play appeal now because the force was removed.

The run counts.

This is what I thought, but I cannot reconcile it to 7:08 e

He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been
forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a
following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner
must be tagged to be put out.

Technically the batter was not out on a force play.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

This is what I thought, but I cannot reconcile it to 7:08 e

He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been
forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a
following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner
must be tagged to be put out.

Technically the batter was not out on a force play.

Nope, but your quoted rule has nothing to do with your original situation.

Look at it in this situation: R1. Fly ball to R9, who traps it. BR touches first and turns toward second; R1 isn't sure if the ball is caught and stops halfway between 1B and 2B. F9 throws to F3, who tags BR off the base.

At this point, is the force still in effect? No, because the previous runner (the BR here) being put out removed the force.

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Nope, but your quoted rule has nothing to do with your original situation.

Look at it in this situation: R1. Fly ball to R9, who traps it. BR touches first and turns toward second; R1 isn't sure if the ball is caught and stops halfway between 1B and 2B. F9 throws to F3, who tags BR off the base.

At this point, is the force still in effect? No, because the previous runner (the BR here) being put out removed the force.

Thanks, I just find it strange that a bad base running play would aid the offense.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

Thanks, I just find it strange that a bad base running play would aid the offense.

How does this "aid the offense"? If the ball clearly drops, they would have R1 + R3, a run scored, and two outs. If the ball were clearly caught, they would have R1 + R2, a run scored, and two outs.

As is, they still get the run, but now there are three outs.

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by CT1

How does this "aid the offense"? If the ball clearly drops, they would have R1 + R3, a run scored, and two outs. If the ball were clearly caught, they would have R1 + R2, a run scored, and two outs.

As is, they still get the run, but now there are three outs.

If they get the forces at both 3B and 2B no runs would have scored.

[maven]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

If they get the forces at both 3B and 2B no runs would have scored.

The batter hit a soft liner to F9. How does the defense get forces at 3B and 2B on a base hit to the outfield?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

Thanks, I just find it strange that a bad base running play would aid the offense.

Think of it this way... once BR is out, R1 is free to return to first base safely.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by maven

The batter hit a soft liner to F9. How does the defense get forces at 3B and 2B on a base hit to the outfield?

If they get forces at 3B and 2B (or either, really) - it's not a base hit.

Nolan Ryan had a no-hitter saved once by a "soft liner" to right field. R1 didn't know if it would be caught and hesitated. When it wasn't caught, F9 threw to second base, forcing R1. No hit.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

How does this "aid the offense"? If the ball clearly drops, they would have R1 + R3, a run scored, and two outs. If the ball were clearly caught, they would have R1 + R2, a run scored, and two outs.

As is, they still get the run, but now there are three outs.

The baserunning mistake he's referring to is BR passing R1.

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by maven

The batter hit a soft liner to F9. How does the defense get forces at 3B and 2B on a base hit to the outfield?

See bottom of 2nd in this game. August 21, 1998 Toronto Blue Jays at Anaheim Angels Play by Play and Box Score - Baseball-Reference.com

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

This is what I thought, but I cannot reconcile it to 7:08 e

He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been
forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a
following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner
must be tagged to be put out.

Technically the batter was not out on a force play.

It's like this: The following runner was put out while a force play was in effect. There is now no force play.

And if you want to get really technical the batter can never be put out on a force play. The "normal" play on the batter at 1B while seemingly a force, is not a force because the batter does the forcing, he isn't himself forced. See 2.00 Force Play. That's why there are separate exceptions in 4.09(a ).

[CT1]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The baserunning mistake he's referring to is BR passing R1.

I understood that.