Passed Runner/Missed Base

[blueump]

Had this the other night - Fed rules

R1 - 1 out. BR doubles. R1 holds between 1st and 2nd to make sure the ball is not caught. When she finally does take off toward second, the BR is right behind her. R1 rounds second but fails to touch the base. BR touches second and also rounds. R1 then realizes that she did not touch and returns to touch 2nd, thus allowing BR to physically pass her between 2nd and 3rd. R1 then touches second and continues to 3rd.

At the end of playing action I call the BR out for passing a preceding runner. Coach from the defense now comes out of the dug-out and wants to appeal the runner missing second, wants me to call the runner on 3rd out as well. I explain that the runner did return and legally touch the base before going on to 3rd base.

His argument was that a runner can not return to touch a base once a following runner has already touched that base. It sounded pretty convincing, but I believe that the only time a player can't return to touch a base is when a following runner has scored. Am I right or wrong here?

[BuggBob]

I'm with you on this one. Fed Rule 8-6-4only deals with after a runner has scored.

Bugg

[mcrowder]

BR should be called out the INSTANT she passes another runner. Not at the end of play.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

BR should be called out the INSTANT she passes another runner. Not at the end of play.

Where would I find that in the book? The ball remained live. When it happened I called out "passed runner" pumping my fist, but playing action had to continue. Its not on the dead ball chart either.

I assumed this was a delayed dead ball situation. Can you cite please?

[blueump]

Originally Posted by blueump

I assumed this was a delayed dead ball situation.

Actually, I think its a live ball situation. The runner is simply declared out.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by blueump

Where would I find that in the book? The ball remained live. When it happened I called out "passed runner" pumping my fist, but playing action had to continue. Its not on the dead ball chart either.

I assumed this was a delayed dead ball situation. Can you cite please?

The ball reamins live, but the runner is out immediately.

ASA 8-7-D

THE RUNNER IS OUT.
When the runner physically passes a preceding runner before that runner has been called out. If this was the third out of the inning, any runs scored prior to the out for passing a preceding runner count.

EFFECT - Section 7 A-E: The ball is live and the runner is out. In D and E, the runner passing or assisted is called out.

NFHS 8-6-4

Art. 4... The runner physically passes a preceding runner before that runner has been put out. If this was the third out of the inning, any runs scoring prior to the out for passing a preceding runner would count. A runner(s) passing a preceding obstructed runner, as in 8-4-3b Penalty c, is not out.
PENTALTY: (Arts. 1 through 5) The ball is in play and the runner is out.

[blueump]

Maybe I'm block headed but I don't get the point. She was called out, we kept the ball live????

[Dakota]

Here is your mistake:

Originally Posted by blueump

At the end of playing action I call the BR out for passing a preceding runner.

Here is what should have happened: :

Originally Posted by blueump

...R1 - 1 out. BR doubles. R1 holds between 1st and 2nd to make sure the ball is not caught. When she finally does take off toward second, the BR is right behind her. R1 rounds second but fails to touch the base. BR touches second and also rounds. R1 then realizes that she did not touch and returns to touch 2nd, thus allowing BR to physically pass her between 2nd and 3rd. I called BR out. R1 then touches second and continues to 3rd....

[IRISHMAFIA]

At the end of playing action I call the BR out for passing a preceding runner

The point is that you stated you called the BR out for passing "at the end of playing action".

I understand you have recently provided clarification, but I believe this is the issue some posters were addressing.

[blueump]

Ah, I get it. So instead of looking for and answering the question, they feel the need to nit-pick every detail of a post. Only one poster felt the need to address the question asked. Boy aren't we umpires a CRITICAL bunch?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by blueump

Where would I find that in the book? The ball remained live. When it happened I called out "passed runner" pumping my fist, but playing action had to continue. Its not on the dead ball chart either.

I assumed this was a delayed dead ball situation. Can you cite please?

This is a very confusing statement - surely you've had runners called out during a live ball before and playing action continued... this is not a strange situation. You simply call her out - just as if she'd been tagged right then and there. Other runners may do what they want.

Not understanding your reference to DDB at all - this runner is out. You don't want her running around drawing other throws.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by blueump

Ah, I get it. So instead of looking for and answering the question, they feel the need to nit-pick every detail of a post. Only one poster felt the need to address the question asked. Boy aren't we umpires a CRITICAL bunch?

What's your deal? You asked for input on whether you did something right or not. I let you know what you did wrong. And I'm being CRITICAL?!?!?! What was the purpose of you posting to ask if you did something right, if a post telling you what you did wrong is considered being "critical"?

If you don't want help, don't ask.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by blueump

Ah, I get it. So instead of looking for and answering the question, they feel the need to nit-pick every detail of a post. Only one poster felt the need to address the question asked. Boy aren't we umpires a CRITICAL bunch?

Seems that everyone answered your question. I don't see anyone "nitpicking" anything. They are answering your questions and providing you with the rule citation that you requested.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by blueump

I believe that the only time a player can't return to touch a base is when a following runner has scored. Am I right or wrong here?

Sorry, maybe I should have worded the question more clearly like other posters do:

I BELIEVE THAT THE ONLY TIME A PLAYER CAN'T RETURN TO TOUCH A BASE IS WHEN A FOLLOWING RUNNER HAS SCORED. AM I RIGHT OR WRONG HERE?

[Dakota]

Like yelling is going to help.

I (for one) was responding to your follow up question about the passed runner, DDB, dead ball, etc., and asking for the rule citation.

Since the Q about the runner returning had been answered, it appeared to me the thread (with your participation) moved on to the details of the play, esp. the handling of the runner who was passed.

Sorry you were offended, but you did ask.