Overturned Balk

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

But when he made his fake to third, he never disengaged his pivot foot from the rubber.

I honestly have no idea what you're looking at. Look at where his foot is at 1:04 and 1:05 of the video. Pretty standard disengagement there.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I honestly have no idea what you're looking at. Look at where his foot is at 1:04 and 1:05 of the video. Pretty standard disengagement there.

If it was standard, why did U1 balk it?

Seriously, it looked way too much like a jab-step. Most fake-to-third/fake-to-first moves I've seen have F1 disengaging the pivot foot during the step to third base, well before they turn to go to first.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Manny A

If it was standard, why did U1 balk it?

Seriously, it looked way too much like a jab-step. Most fake-to-third/fake-to-first moves I've seen have F1 disengaging the pivot foot during the step to third base, well before they turn to go to first.

You can't jap step if you've already stepped to another base to feint a pickoff move. A jab step is to first base and is used in a regular pickoff at first when you have an R1 only.

This is not a balk. How much more do you want him to disengage it before he turns to first base? There isn't a specified distance that his pivot foot must go away from the rubber. He just has to disengage, which he does.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

If it was standard, why did U1 balk it?

Well.. he was wrong, wasn't he?

Seriously, it looked way too much like a jab-step. Most fake-to-third/fake-to-first moves I've seen have F1 disengaging the pivot foot during the step to third base, well before they turn to go to first.

I'm trying hard to find "it looks like a jabstep" or even "it looks different than I'm used to" in my rulebook, and can't find it.

He CLEARLY disengages at 1:04-05 in the video. And not just by a little bit - his foot moves toward third by about half the length of the rubber. If you don't see that, I can't help you.

[bob jenkins]

I can see from U1's perspective where he might not have seen F1's pivot foot move to third (and break contact with the rubber). The move was directly away from U1 and by less than "several feet" so it might have been difficult to see the distance. PU and U2 would have a good view, and that's why it was corrected.

[jicecone]

U1 just finished backing up and then tried to peek around F3 . I don't he saw the pitcher disengage the plate and it seemed as though it was a hesitant call.

His doubt is what led to the conference.

No balk.

[ozzy6900]

There was no balk here and I do not understand why all of a sudden, the 3rd to 1st move is so difficult for people and umpires to deal with. It seems that I woke up one morning and the world turned stupid! It's a legal move designed to deceive the runner at 1st and getting an out.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

There was no balk here and I do not understand why all of a sudden, the 3rd to 1st move is so difficult for people and umpires to deal with. It seems that I woke up one morning and the world turned stupid! It's a legal move designed to deceive the runner at 1st and getting an out.

Is it that or fans don't like seeing it? Also, it helps to stop some of the deliberate delay. I'm just guessing if these may be reasons for getting rid of it. That and the fact that 99% of them are a waste of time b/c the pitchers give it away long before they even attempt it.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Is it that or fans don't like seeing it? Also, it helps to stop some of the deliberate delay. I'm just guessing if these may be reasons for getting rid of it. That and the fact that 99% of them are a waste of time b/c the pitchers give it away long before they even attempt it.

Actually, GA, I can see where the fans have a hard time dealing with this but they still thing a base award is the base you were going to plus one.

What surprises me is how umpires, who should be able to break this move down on the spot and rule correctly, can't even understand when F1 is set, on or off the rubber -- sigh.... I was right. I woke up one morning and the world got stupid while I slept.

[jicecone]

MLB 8.01c
"At any time during the pitcher’s preliminary movements and until his natural
pitching motion commits him to the pitch, he may throw to any base provided he steps directly toward such base before making the throw."

As long as he steps and gains distance, then disengages the plate, it doesn't matter where he ends up. It does not stipulate that the pitcher needs to clear the end of the plate.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Well.. he was wrong, wasn't he?

I'm trying hard to find "it looks like a jabstep" or even "it looks different than I'm used to" in my rulebook, and can't find it.

He CLEARLY disengages at 1:04-05 in the video. And not just by a little bit - his foot moves toward third by about half the length of the rubber. If you don't see that, I can't help you.

I agree he steps from the far edge of the rubber on the first base side to the middle of the rubber. But I don't think that he has legally disengaged the rubber. Has he gained any distance toward 3B if his foot clearly lands in front of the rubber?

His back foot is closer to 3B after he turns to fake a throw back to first base. You'll notice it passed the rear edge of the rubber on the third base side. Shouldn't the pitcher move his lead foot off the edge of the rubber to gain distance and direction before his throw or feint?

[bob jenkins]

No. No.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Well.. he was wrong, wasn't he?

I'm trying hard to find "it looks like a jabstep" or even "it looks different than I'm used to" in my rulebook, and can't find it.

He CLEARLY disengages at 1:04-05 in the video. And not just by a little bit - his foot moves toward third by about half the length of the rubber. If you don't see that, I can't help you.

Perhaps I don't understand what a jab-step entails.

Suppose this pitcher never made that initial move to third. Wouldn't his disengagement of his pivot foot toward third while he turns, steps and throws to first be a jab-step?