Now, for some actual baseball

[kylejt]

What a heads up play by the dead duck runner. When caught up in a pickle, go for an OBS call.

What a bone headed call by U3. The runner went right after the catcher, who was clearly out of the runner's basepath.

Nice point at the the plate by the PU, too. (what's that all about?) Yeah, it's an award, but you still don't point because he could miss the plate.

All stuff I'd yell at my 13 year umpires for messing up on.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by kylejt

clearly out of the runner's basepath.

.

And just how many times have you had to tell a "he was out of the baseline" yelling coach that the runner can run wherever he wants to run, that the only time there's a path is when a tag is attempted.

Can't have it both ways guys!

[asdf]

Originally Posted by kylejt

What a heads up play by the dead duck runner. When caught up in a pickle, go for an OBS call.

What a bone headed call by U3. The runner went right after the catcher, who was clearly out of the runner's basepath.

Nice point at the the plate by the PU, too. (what's that all about?) Yeah, it's an award, but you still don't point because he could miss the plate.

All stuff I'd yell at my 13 year umpires for messing up on.

It seemed to me that the PU pointed as he touched. I've done that plenty of times. If anyone questions whether or not I saw the tag at the plate.... "go to the video."

I was in Cincy on business for the last two weeks and was at this game. Not sure what was more puzzling on this...

The fact that obstruction was called, or the fact that Acta didn't even come to the railing on this.

I'll bet he wishes he did once he saw the replay.

The fact that obstruction

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by asdf

It seemed to me that the PU pointed as he touched. I've done that plenty of times. If anyone questions whether or not I saw the tag at the plate.... "go to the video."

Bad reason to deviate from the proper mechanic, imho. Do NOT point at the plate except on timing plays (and on timing plays, point even if they didn't touch!)

[Rufus]

Basketball ref, and baseball coach, with a question on where you look on a play like this. In basketball we typically "referee the defense" to know whether or not legal guarding position was attained before contact. That way we know what to call, a block or player control foul. Do baseball umpires do the same kind of thing in situations like this where contact between players is possible/likely?

I ask because my eyes followed the catcher (defense) on this one and, based on his movement away from R3, it seemed that R3 initiated the contact by leaning into the catcher.

Granted, as a coach I would also instruct my C to divert further from the runner once he's thrown the ball to avoid such a situation in the first place.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

(and on timing plays, point even if they didn't touch!)

I don't agree here, it could confuse the defense into thinking the runner touched, and scored on the play. Let the defense at least have the opportunity to make a play on the runner without an appeal to get the out.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I don't agree here, it could confuse the defense into thinking the runner touched, and scored on the play. Let the defense at least have the opportunity to make a play on the runner without an appeal to get the out.

I see your point, but the point of the pointing (on a timing play) is to indicate that the run scores. Which it does, pending appeal. You are signalling to the scorekeeper, not the players.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by asdf

If anyone questions whether or not I saw the tag at the plate.... "go to the video."

That's not an official mechanic. If anyone questions whether I saw the tag, they should properly appeal and I will let them know what I saw.

I know what I did and didn't see, I don't need some rat trying to get the crowd lit up for something that he probably wasn't even watching.

[REFANDUMP]

Horrible call by the third base umpire. The runner obviously is trying to run into the fielder and not advance towards a base.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

Horrible call by the third base umpire. The runner obviously is trying to run into the fielder and not advance towards a base.

Really? Just cause he tried to run into the fielder doesn't mean it's not obstruction. Look at R3's feet throughout the sequence -- he moved about a foot into the grass, if that. F2 was where he didn't belong and he paid for it. R3 was just a savvy runner that took advantage of a situation that presented itself.

[REFANDUMP]

I'm not going to bail out bad baserunning when the runner is 2 to 3 feet on the infield grass running into a fielder who is getting out of the way (in my opinion, is out of the way).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I'm not going to bail out bad baserunning when the runner is 2 to 3 feet on the infield grass running into a fielder who is getting out of the way (in my opinion, is out of the way).

How is that relevant?

The runner deviated from his original path by about a foot. The fielder was too close. Poor rundown defense.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

Really? Just cause he tried to run into the fielder doesn't mean it's not obstruction.

Yes, it most definitely does. if the runner TRIED TO run into the fielder (who was not between that runner and any base), then the fielder did not prevent him from running where he wanted to run. You can't award obstruction to a runner who intentionally runs toward a fielder instead of a base.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Yes, it most definitely does. if the runner TRIED TO run into the fielder (who was not between that runner and any base), then the fielder did not prevent him from running where he wanted to run. You can't award obstruction to a runner who intentionally runs toward a fielder instead of a base.

Well, I guess we'll disagree here, then. Reminds of of the basketball play where the defender tries to embellish contact to draw a charge -- that alone doesn't mean that it's no longer a player control foul.