An actual rules question, for a change

ChuckElias · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 08:16am

This is a discussion that started on another website. I'm looking for some input here. I already know JR's opinion, so hold off for a while, JR.

B1 scores. While A1 is holding the ball OOB for the endline throw-in, A2 sets a screen near the endline. A3 runs OOB along the endline to go around the screen and re-enters the court inbounds. Is this a violation under new rule 9-3-2? Or is it legal b/c it's an endline throw-in and any teammate of the thrower can be OOB?

Junker · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 08:24am

I have yet to read the actual wording in the new rule, but I'd say with the intent of the rule, this would be a violation. The player is clearly trying to gain an advantage by being oob.

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 08:26am

I would think it would be "technically" illegal.

I do not know for sure, I currently do not have the new rulebook and casebook have a definitive answer. My first gut feeling is this is a violation. A3 went out of bounds to gain an advantage and should be penalized when A3 enters the court.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Sep 19th, 2005 at 09:40 AM]

Dan_ref · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 08:38am

A3 has the right by rule to be OOB. Perfectly legal IMO.

Junker · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 09:04am

Dan, doesn't this violate the intent of the new rule? Also, I believe there's been an exception where running oob to get around a screen has been a violation for some time. I'd quote rules, but I don't have any books with me.

rainmaker · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 09:06am

Legal in my book. There's no way to know whether she was getting around the screen, or preparing to receive a legal, albeit oob, pass.

It's an interesting question, Chuck? Did you see this happen?

mick · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 09:12am

9-3-2 A player shall not leave the floor for an unauthorized reason. Note: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, eventhough he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.

9.3.2 Situation: A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket. Ruling: A1 is charged with a violation for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. [9-7 Three Seconds]

rainmaker · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 09:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
9-3-2 A player shall not leave the floor for an unauthorized reason. Note: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, eventhough he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.

9.3.2 Situation: A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket. Ruling: A1 is charged with a violation for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. [9-7 Three Seconds]

It seems weird to me that this is the only case cited. The ones that we really see, aren't firmed up. How annoying.

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 09:29am

Adam · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 09:36am

I'm with Juulie on this one.

elecref · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 09:48am

i would rule this an OOB violation. the rule book states that a "player" may not leave the court for an authorized reason. it does not specify whether the offense or defensive team is exempt from the rule. and since A3 is a player, he/she has just committed a vioaltion.

Dan_ref · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 09:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
Dan, doesn't this violate the intent of the new rule? Also, I believe there's been an exception where running oob to get around a screen has been a violation for some time. I'd quote rules, but I don't have any books with me.

I don't think so. The rule change makes leaving the court for an unauthorized reason a violation instead of a T.

9-3-2 New, 10-3-3:
Changed the penalty for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason to a violation from a technical foul.

In Chuck's case A3 is auhtorized to leave the court as he did.

Jimgolf · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 10:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by elecref
i would rule this an OOB violation. the rule book states that a "player" may not leave the court for an authorized reason. it does not specify whether the offense or defensive team is exempt from the rule. and since A3 is a player, he/she has just committed a vioaltion.

After a basket, players on the inbounding team are authorized to go out of bounds, hence, not an unauthorized leaving of the court and not a violation.

bob jenkins · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 10:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Legal in my book. There's no way to know whether she was getting around the screen, or preparing to receive a legal, albeit oob, pass.

It's an interesting question, Chuck? Did you see this happen?

I think you can tell the difference (the person who goes OOB to receive, or be a decoy on, a pass goes more-or-less perpendicular to the endline and reenters at more-or-less the same spot).

I concede that you could come up with a play where the official might not be able to tell -- and I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the offense.

But, if it's clear that the offense was just running OOB to clear a screen to get open, I'd have a violation.

Jurassic Referee · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 19, 2005, 10:18am

Rule 9-2-3.

Rule 9-2-12.

Rule 7-5-7.