What happened to me (Suspended)

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

At the local league level, as a league option. Not once All-Star tournaments start. It's never been an option in my area, at least not the leagues I volunteer for (mainly to mentor teenaged umpires) from time to time.

There are no minors in Allstars.

Rita

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Again, he was enforcing THEIR rules, not refusing to enforce their rules. They are the ones who were trying to circumvent their own set of local playing rules by allowing coaches out of the dugout. If they wanted an exception to their own rule, they should have had that in writing as well. Stupid rule to start with, but they are the ones who WROTE it. Better off without this set of losers. I would have handed them the baseballs and said see ya when some league official thought he had more power than the Umpire in Chief of the baseball game. Ludicrous.

Steve: No argument. And all this was hashed out in the initial rant and follow up. But in the real world, words like"should have" are meaningless, You have to deal with "the way it is".

This is their league, and apparently they are are used to violating their rules with the consent of the league president and the UIC. So, why all the whining? What good does repeatedly whining about what should have happened. They don't want him and if he has half a brain, he doesn't want them.

Time to get over it.

[tankmjg24]

I never once stated that 10 year old baseball is serious stuff. To the majority of the coaches and parents you would think it is, but to me it is a bunch of youth playing a sport they enjoy. I know from personal experience that I cannot tell you what my team's win loss record was or what my batting average was when I played 10 year old ball. What I do know is I loved the sport of baseball and looked forward to spring and summertime in order to play it.

Jicecone you still did not answer the question on what your response to the attorneys will be when you are named on the lawsuit for not enforcing the rules of the league and as a result a player became injured. You can say that it will not happen but what if it does? The answer of the coaches wanted to be outside and everyone allows it is not going to fly.

MrUmpire, I would not necessarily say I am whining, just pointing out the fact that I was royally screwed over and it can happen to any future umpire that officiates here. I spent most of my time on the 12U or 11U field and never once had a problem like this. This was my second game doing 10U and I ran into a coach that did not feel like playing by the rules and had an issue with it. He just so happened to be friends with an equal of a jerk who was on the board. In regards to deciding if a child is mature enough or not, not to get all academia on here, but the psychology degree with an emphasis in child development on my wall gives me the ability to do so. You would be surprised what children are capable of, even at the age of 10.

Rita, I think I might know why there is confusion on Little League allowing Minor coaches on the field of play and rather an All Star division exists at this level. I am unsure what area you are from or how your system is set up. I know that some larger leagues play Major ball with just 12, AAA with just 11, AA with just 10, and A with just 9. The AAA, AA, and A while being competitive is considered minor league even though it is technically not. I know in my old area Major ball was 11-12, Minor league 9-10, Coach pitch 7-8, and T-ball 6U. When the normal person thinks of Minor League they think of those age divisions. When Little League thinks of Minor League they think of the non competitive younger divisions where instruction is emphasized.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

MrUmpire, I would not necessarily say I am whining, just pointing out the fact that I was royally screwed over and it can happen to any future umpire that officiates here. I spent most of my time on the 12U or 11U field and never once had a problem like this. This was my second game doing 10U and I ran into a coach that did not feel like playing by the rules and had an issue with it. He just so happened to be friends with an equal of a jerk who was on the board. In regards to deciding if a child is mature enough or not, not to get all academia on here, but the psychology degree with an emphasis in child development on my wall gives me the ability to do so. You would be surprised what children are capable of, even at the age of 10.

We can compare our education, degrees and practices in psychology at
a later date. My comment was that this is not the responsibility of the umpire. And it is not, regardless of how you feel about your personal abilities. Read a rule book. Umpire responsibilities are contained therein.

Yes, you are whining. You continue to refuse to accept reality, which is they have given themselves the right to do what they do. You have no authority in that league to deny them that. If you cannot accept how they run their league, don't work it.

If you truly have a background in psychology you must know it is time to let go and get on with your life. Hanging on is not positive and will contribute nothing to your success as an umpire or well being as a human being.

[tankmjg24]

One of our duties as an umpire is to enforce the rules. These rules in my situation contain the fact that the coaches are supposed to remain within their dugout unless they are base coaches. So by not enforcing this rule are we not doing our job? Sure the coaches may disagree with it, however it is still a rule. Coaches are not going to agree with every rule and the solution to this is not to just allow the coaches to do as they please. I believe that we cannot choose which rules to enforce and which rules to not. There are plenty of rules that I disagree with, however they are rules so I am going to enforce them.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Steve: No argument. And all this was hashed out in the initial rant and follow up. But in the real world, words like"should have" are meaningless, You have to deal with "the way it is".

This is their league, and apparently they are are used to violating their rules with the consent of the league president and the UIC. So, why all the whining? What good does repeatedly whining about what should have happened. They don't want him and if he has half a brain, he doesn't want them.

Time to get over it.

I would get over it by not ever doing their league again.

When we allow coaches to do whatever they want in 10yo leagues......they become a problem in older age groups.

34 years ago, I tossed an American Legion coach from a very powerful district when I was just 18.

Some of the answers here would have implied I had a thin skin and was not a good umpire and was just looking for trouble. His Post suspended him and later asked him not to come back. I was very green and he thought he would take advantage of me......oh well......

The OP seems like a reasonable person and did nothing wrong in my opinion. I would hope that other umpires in the league would follow his example......but I doubt it being paid $40 for a youth game.

Parents and coaches are the reason I watch most games from afar these days. I don't think my fuse has gotten any shorter these past years......but I do think that coaches "idiot filters" have gotten more holes in them.

Joel

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Again, he was enforcing THEIR rules, not refusing to enforce their rules. They are the ones who were trying to circumvent their own set of local playing rules by allowing coaches out of the dugout.

This description is exactly right, and the crux of the matter.

The league seems to run loosely: some rules are strictly enforced, others are not. That's a difficult situation for a non-local umpire to enter, because you don't know which rules to enforce.

Different parts of the country run sports differently: some areas — especially larger areas with lots of teams and leagues — have air-tight rules because all hell would break loose if they didn't.

The OP, IIRC, is from West Virginia. Perhaps things are different there, and sports (like other institutions) are much more personal and political than they are in other areas. No disrespect to the Mountain State, but it matters which holler you're from.

My takeaways from the situation:

1. When working a new league, I'm going to be as open as possible to how they want to run things. It's their league, and they're paying me to run the game their way.

2. If I have no partner and can't figure out a dispute, I'd fall back on the rule book, explaining (perhaps apologetically) that I had no other choice. But that's not what happened in the OP: both coaches wanted to be out of the dugout, and the OP went after them.

3. Like a lot of people, I need to be right. I try to keep that impulse in check on the field and off, and to listen to what other people are telling me. If I'm wrong or partly to blame, I try to be mature enough to admit it. In my experience, the only way to learn from mistakes is to recognize them as such.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

One of our duties as an umpire is to enforce the rules. These rules in my situation contain the fact that the coaches are supposed to remain within their dugout unless they are base coaches. So by not enforcing this rule are we not doing our job? Sure the coaches may disagree with it, however it is still a rule. Coaches are not going to agree with every rule and the solution to this is not to just allow the coaches to do as they please. I believe that we cannot choose which rules to enforce and which rules to not. There are plenty of rules that I disagree with, however they are rules so I am going to enforce them.

Have you ever exceeded the speed limit ? (a rule is a rule )

Our degrees on the wall and our complete and total knowledge of the league rules mean nothing when you don't have the ability to assess and manage situations that aren't listed in black and white.

They screwed up on the black and white areas.

You screwed up on the grey area.

Put your degree to use and quit rationalizing your actions.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rita C

There are no minors in Allstars.

Rita

I guess the 9-10 district and state we hold every year is what, then?

BTW, the RIM says that it's a local option for coaches to be on the field.

[Caesar's Ghost]

If you're new to the area then ask your partner how the rule is enforced and if it's not enforced as written get it changed from the inside or get a written email from the UIC telling you not to enforce it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

I would get over it by not ever doing their league again.

When we allow coaches to do whatever they want in 10yo leagues......they become a problem in older age groups.

34 years ago, I tossed an American Legion coach from a very powerful district when I was just 18.

Some of the answers here would have implied I had a thin skin and was not a good umpire and was just looking for trouble. His Post suspended him and later asked him not to come back. I was very green and he thought he would take advantage of me......oh well......

The OP seems like a reasonable person and did nothing wrong in my opinion. I would hope that other umpires in the league would follow his example......but I doubt it being paid $40 for a youth game.

Parents and coaches are the reason I watch most games from afar these days. I don't think my fuse has gotten any shorter these past years......but I do think that coaches "idiot filters" have gotten more holes in them.

Joel

I find it funny that so many people said how local rules must be followed in the local rule thread and then come here and say to not follow local rules.

I do think the OP should count his blessings and move on. You aren't a good official if you don't get scratched from a league or two along the way.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

Jicecone you still did not answer the question on what your response to the attorneys will be when you are named on the lawsuit for not enforcing the rules of the league and as a result a player became injured. You can say that it will not happen but what if it does? The answer of the coaches wanted to be outside and everyone allows it is not going to fly.

Please direct all questions to my attorneys that represent me.:

John Q. Public, Esquire
Dewy Cheatem & How Associates
123 Your Out Blvd
Caribu, Nebraska

Tank, you certainly seem to be a very intelligent, well educated, young official. I happen to be a very intelligent, well educated, old official who is just trying to pass along some experience based upon years of officiating I have accomplished. And it doesn't mean I am the guru of Baseball umpiring knowledge, either.

You obtained your credentials in life as a Psychologist by studying the field and gaining knowledge that previous Psychologist's gathered from their experience. That established the basic rules and mechanics for which you practice your profession along with formulating new ideas and methods that enhance what you do, based upon your own experience's.

We are only trying to pass on knowledge based upon our experience. It is your choice as to whether you want to use it.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

One of our duties as an umpire is to enforce the rules. These rules in my situation contain the fact that the coaches are supposed to remain within their dugout unless they are base coaches. So by not enforcing this rule are we not doing our job? Sure the coaches may disagree with it, however it is still a rule. Coaches are not going to agree with every rule and the solution to this is not to just allow the coaches to do as they please. I believe that we cannot choose which rules to enforce and which rules to not. There are plenty of rules that I disagree with, however they are rules so I am going to enforce them.

Wow...

This is not Major League ball. This is a small time local youth league who has indicated how they want the rules enforced. Either do it their way or don't work their games. It's really that simple.

You remind me of the young ROTC cadet (Kevin Bacon, IRC) in "Animal House" ridiculously standing his ground at the parade and being run over by hundreds of participants.

BTW, how often do you measure the height of the mound to make sure it meets he rule?

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Wow...

This is not Major League ball. This is a small time local youth league who has indicated how they want the rules enforced. Either do it their way or don't work their games. It's really that simple.

You remind me of the young ROTC cadet (Kevin Bacon, IRC) in "Animal House" ridiculously standing his ground at the parade and being run over by hundreds of participants.

BTW, how often do you measure the height of the mound to make sure it meets he rule?

Wow.....you remind me of John Belushi who spit his mashed potatoes at everyone (while extremely funny) thought it acceptable.

You are the problem.......(and everyone who agrees with your opinion)........not the OP.

When me and my ex made sure our daughters said "Yes Sir/No Sir" and "Yes Maam/No Maam".........some thought us old fashioned.
We now have an Engineer.....a graphic desighner (damn near an architect) and a 2nd year nursing student........

Joel

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Wow...

This is not Major League ball. This is a small time local youth league who has indicated how they want the rules enforced. Either do it their way or don't work their games. It's really that simple.

You remind me of the young ROTC cadet (Kevin Bacon, IRC) in "Animal House" ridiculously standing his ground at the parade and being run over by hundreds of participants.

BTW, how often do you measure the height of the mound to make sure it meets he rule?

And BTW......I was a Park Superintendent for 8 years.....and it was my job to make sure the BB mounds were the correct height. I guess that was not important either.

People with your ideas are what is wrong with society today. Go along......do what is expected......don't rock the boat.......

Joel