Illegal Slide?

[Caesar's Ghost]

FED and NCAA only:

R1. Grounder to short. Throws wildly to second. F4 defelcts the ball and it rolls toward the umpire's B position. After the ball is deflected, R1 slides to the inside of the base and (a) does or (b) does not make contact with F4.

Ruling?

[mbyron]

The FED FPSR requires the runner to slide directly into and not past the base. If you judge that the slide is directly into the base (not sure what "the inside of the base" means), then the contact is legal. The fielder has no other protection on a thrown ball.

I don't do NCAA.

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by Caesar's Ghost

FED and NCAA only:

R1. Grounder to short. Throws wildly to second. F4 defelcts the ball and it rolls toward the umpire's B position. After the ball is deflected, R1 slides to the inside of the base and (a) does or (b) does not make contact with F4.

Ruling?

Is there a force play happening at 2nd base? You state AFTER the ball is deflected (assumes that it is rolling on the ground), R1 slides into second. Please clarify, is there a play being made on the sliding runner?

For sake of argument, I will assume that R1 is sliding into 2nd. The deflection part is irrelevant. As mentioned, a slide, to be legal, must be in direct line with the base. Contact can't be made behind the base or away from the base. If the slide is legal, then I can't have a violation of the FPSR in A or B. There can be legal contact.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

For sake of argument, I will assume that R1 is sliding into 2nd. The deflection part is irrelevant. As mentioned, a slide, to be legal, must be in direct line with the base. Contact can't be made behind the base or away from the base. If the slide is legal, then I can't have a violation of the FPSR in A or B. There can be legal contact.

Bolded is FED only. Not illegal in NCAA and OBR.

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by Matt

Bolded is FED only. Not illegal in NCAA and OBR.

Correct, I should have stated my views are related to FED only.

[Caesar's Ghost]

As part of the play, F4 had come across the base toward F6 / third. R1 slid toward the fielder, not in a direct line to the base. If F4 had caught the ball, it was a textbook FPSR violation by R1, whether or not there was contact. Does the fact that F4 dropped / deflected the ball change this and is contact (or not) relevant?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Caesar's Ghost

As part of the play, F4 had come across the base toward F6 / third. R1 slid toward the fielder, not in a direct line to the base. If F4 had caught the ball, it was a textbook FPSR violation by R1, whether or not there was contact. Does the fact that F4 dropped / deflected the ball change this and is contact (or not) relevant?

Ah, now I understand the question: do we have to have hindrance to call FPSR violation/interference?

The standard for FPSR is "make contact or alter the play," so I would say, since it says "OR," that contact is sufficient for the violation. Since the violation is treated as INT, you can have a penalty for INT even without hindrance.

Another way to get there: FPSR is a safety rule, and with safety rules we err on the side of caution. Even if F6 never threw the ball, the runner has violated the rule and brought the penalty on himself.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Caesar's Ghost

FED and NCAA only:

R1. Grounder to short. Throws wildly to second. F4 deflects the ball and it rolls toward the umpire's B position. After the ball is deflected, R1 slides to the inside of the base and (a) does or (b) does not make contact with F4.

Ruling?

As others have stated, your description leaves a lot out however, sometimes players just doesn't know how to play a position properly and coaches and fans want the umpire to compensate by calling something, when it is just sloppy play. Was F4 playing on the wrong side of the bag and there was contact.? Did he cross the bag to go after the ball? All these things have to be taking into consideration.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Caesar's Ghost

FED and NCAA only:

R1. Grounder to short. Throws wildly to second. F4 defelcts the ball and it rolls toward the umpire's B position. After the ball is deflected, R1 slides to the inside of the base and (a) does or (b) does not make contact with F4.

Ruling?

You cite that the slide occurs after the fielder has booted the ball and it has rolled away. I have a hard time protecting a fielder if the slide is otherwise legal - i.e. in compliance with 2-32. The immediate act of making a play is over. The force play mention in 8-4-2 is moot since the ball was misplayed and the runner is legally sliding. You cannot have a force play without the ball. The runner may be guilty of MC depending on the contact though. You have to ask yourself, did he do it to prevent the fielder from recovering the ball and possibly making a play on the B/R? If so, enforce your FPSR. Based on what was in the OP, we probably have just a defensive mistake and a legal slide though.

The NCAA rule book has a great diagram showing where a runner can slide legally. I hope that the NFHS includes it in next year's update.

[Steven Tyler]

I don't think the FPSR is the proper call for the OP.

I would damn sure ring R1 up for an illegal slide since the throw came from F6, and R1 was sliding to the inside. In this situation, R1 should have been going straight to the base, or to the outfield side.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I don't think the FPSR is the proper call for the OP.

I would damn sure ring R1 up for an illegal slide since the throw came from F6, and R1 was sliding to the inside. In this situation, R1 should have been going straight to the base, or to the outfield side.

If I don't have this right I'll get remedial training (RTFM). But, in calling FPSR INT at 2B, which would usually be called by the PU, you would see a slide not directly at 2B and not away from the fielder. You would not look at anything else and call the violation right away. Somewhere, FED says it wants this called even it doesn't disrupt the play or (I'm guessing here) there is not a play. It's a safety issue.
While I know this I have not always applied it. That's why the coaches play the odds.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by umpjim

If I don't have this right I'll get remedial training (RTFM). But, in calling FPSR INT at 2B, which would usually be called by the PU, you would see a slide not directly at 2B and not away from the fielder. You would not look at anything else and call the violation right away. Somewhere, FED says it wants this called even it doesn't disrupt the play or (I'm guessing here) there is not a play. It's a safety issue.
While I know this I have not always applied it. That's why the coaches play the odds.

Just like I told one coach when he ran out to discuss the call, I get, "Did he alter the play? Did he make contact?"

I replied, "No, but it's not because he didn't try his damnedest to! Would you rather he hurt somebody next time?"

It's probably one of the most misunderstood, and misapplied rules by players, coaches, and umpires. I've seen games where I definitely would have called it, not be called, and vice versa.

I simply tell them go straight at the base. Don't contact a fielder on the other side of the base. You don't have to slide, but if you don't, don't interfere with throw, and when you know you are out for sure, run away from the throw.

That's about as basic as you can get it without interference being called most of the time depending on the umpire.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Just like I told one coach when he ran out to discuss the call, I get, "Did he alter the play? Did he make contact?"

I replied, "No, but it's not because he didn't try his damnedest to! Would you rather he hurt somebody next time?"

It's probably one of the most misunderstood, and misapplied rules by players, coaches, and umpires. I've seen games where I definitely would have called it, not be called, and vice versa.

I simply tell them go straight at the base. Don't contact a fielder on the other side of the base. You don't have to slide, but if you don't, don't interfere with throw, and when you know you are out for sure, run away from the throw.

That's about as basic as you can get it without interference being called most of the time depending on the umpire.

Really? You said that?

In the OP, the runner did not interfere with the throw. The fielder deflected it - the play involves defensive error.