Last Play of the Game Question

[starman]

Tie game, bottom of the last inning. Bases loaded one out. Hit to the OF. Runner scores and batter tags first. Suppose the runners on first and second never touch second and third. As players are leaving, the defense tags second and third asking for a inning ending double play (after the runner scores and the batter tags first). What is the correct ruling?

[mbyron]

OBR: appeal denied, game over.

FED: appeal granted, extra innings.

[starman]

Thanks!

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by mbyron

OBR: appeal denied, game over.

FED: appeal granted, extra innings.

Why would this be denied OBR?

[starman]

I think that it would be denied because of 4.09 (b):

When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the runner on third to advance, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base.

[Publius]

appeal at 2nd granted. appeal at 3rd denied; after the appeal at 2nd was granted, the force on R2 was removed and he was not obligated to advance. Game over.

If they had appealed in the proper order (3rd, then 2nd), they'd have had an inning-ending DP and extra innings.

[starman]

good point about the order of the tags. For the sake of conversation, I meant to say that they tagged third and then second.

[Altor]

Why are these being called appeals? As somebody pointed out, if done in the proper order, they are simply force outs, aren't they?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Why would this be denied OBR?

It wouldn't.

Per JEA:
"If the winning run is forced in as the result of a batted ball, all runners including the batter-runner are obligated to touch their next bases. The BR must advance to and touch 1st base, and any other runner forced must advance to and touch his next base. If any such forced runner fails to do so, a force out appeal play is in order; and if it is sustained for the third out, no run shall count since the third out was, in effect, a force out. If this appeal force out is not the third out, the runner shall be declared out but the winning run scores."

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Matt

It wouldn't.

Per JEA:
"If the winning run is forced in as the result of a batted ball, all runners including the batter-runner are obligated to touch their next bases. The BR must advance to and touch 1st base, and any other runner forced must advance to and touch his next base. If any such forced runner fails to do so, a force out appeal play is in order; and if it is sustained for the third out, no run shall count since the third out was, in effect, a force out. If this appeal force out is not the third out, the runner shall be declared out but the winning run scores."

Not what 4.09b says.

Edited to add: also not the way MLB calls it, correctly, according to 4.09b. The video posted in post 14 is an example:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...rtnerId=rss_sd

That's a walk, not a batted ball, but the same rule applies (and is ruled the same).

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Not what 4.09b says.

If we did not have that interp then with bases loaded and 2 outs on a ground ball to let's say the SS, R1 and R2 could peel off cheering while the BR crosses 1B and R3 scored.

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by mbyron

OBR: appeal denied, game over.

FED: appeal granted, extra innings.

Not disputing what you say, but do you have a rule cite for FED?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

Not disputing what you say, but do you have a rule cite for FED?

My initial post was assuming that the out at 3B was recorded before the out at 2B, so that both were force outs. The OP later clarified that this is the play he intended to post.

2012 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 18: In the bottom of the eighth inning, the score is tied, with the bases loaded and two outs. B6 draws a walk and runs and touches first base. B1 [sic: should be R1] trots in from third and touches home plate. B2 [sic], however, begins celebrating and never touches third base. RULING: All runners must legally touch the next base in advancing. If the defense legally appeals while at least one umpire is still on the field of play, B2 is declared out for the third out. Since this out would be a “force” out, no runs would score and the game would continue into the ninth inning. (8-2-1, 8-2-6j, 9-1-1a and d)

[starman]

Thanks. I agree with you for NFHS. But I still think that the run counts in OBR.

Also, can you help me with some terminology. Are "Fed" rules = NFHS rules?

I am not an ump. Just a coach who learns a lot by reading this board.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by starman

Also, can you help me with some terminology. Are "Fed" rules = NFHS rules?

I am not an ump. Just a coach who learns a lot by reading this board.

Yep. We commonly refer to NFHS rules as "FED" here.