USC on last play of game

[BigGref]

Youth league/ Fed rules, 7 seconds left in 4th quarter, A's ball at midfield (game just got tied 14-14). after a TO A1 drops to pass, decides to run. After 3-4 yards B1 strips the ball from A1, while already heading in thier direction.

He is 10 yards in front of everyone at about the 20 when the horn goes off and B1 goes into the endzone the last 20 yards pumping his fist (of both arms) and long stepping (in obvious taunting behavior). I reluctantely throw the flag for the USC. For this forums purpose what do we got and how would you handle this situation (which is very often administered as dead ball fouls)?

In the game at hand there was actually another personal foul on the return team after someone was hit OOB at about the 35 (so that made the penalty administration a lot easier {30 yards from the spot}) So again for this forums sake lets just say that the Celebration USC was the only foul

[ljudge]

TD stands, no try, penalty can not be enforced, game over.

[Theisey]

You say there was a personal foul during or after the TD was scored?
Forget about the taunting (UC) foul for the moment as that foul would be enforced as a deadball foul at the succeeding spot.
It makes a big difference to know when the foul OOB happened.
If the OOB foul was before the apparent TD, the TD is wiped off. Team-B would get a chance to snap after enforcement.

If the OOB foul was after the TD, then the score counts. The fouls need be enforced on the TRY as the game is not over until the TRY is completed unless the youth league rules do not require it to break ties for playoff purposes.

[BoBo]

We all agree that in play one where they celebrate going in for the winning TD it is USC which goes to the succeeding spot. Which by most accounts the game is over as time expired. Nothing happens except turning off the lights and everybody going home.

Now Play 2A

A's ball 3 and 5 on A's 30. A22 is running ahead of everbody for an apparent TD when A66 blocks B55 30 yards behind the play on B's 35. A22 is on the B's 5 when the foul occurs.

Foul-Penalty Enforcement- Down situation.
Personal Foul- 15 yards from the spot of the foul- 1st and 10 at the 50 yard line.
(**If the foul occurs after A22 crosses the goal line it will be enforced on the try.)


Play 2B

Same as above but B55 blocks A66 in the back on B's 35.

Personal Foul- TD counts and penalty enforced on the PAT- The try will be attempted at B's 1 1/2.
(** IF after he crosses the goal line the same enforcement)

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by BushRef
Rookie here, but gonna give it a crack. I think the question becomes, is this a dead ball or live ball foul (the USC).

If it's a Live ball foul, A declines the penalty, it's a TD

If they accept the penalty, I'm gonna GUESS you call it a live ball foul at the spot where he began to celebrate. Let's say that's the 20. So ya push em back to the 35 (15 yd penalty, and B gets one untimed down.

GO easy on me. I don't have my books available to see if this can be enforced as a live ball foul or not.

Well at least you are trying to post as a rookie. That's more than can be said for most rookies. Most just read and don't try to publish their thoughts. It is a live-ball foul but this is one of the special ones. This foul did not affect the outcome of the play like holding does. So USC is marked off from the succeeding spot or the end of the play. This play ended in a touchdown so that stands. If no try is allowed then the game is over. If B is allowed to run the try then A can accept the penalty and B will run the try from the 18.

Unsportsmanlike conduct will either be a dead-ball foul between snaps or if it occurs during a play it will be marked off where the play ends.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by BushRef

If he's pumping both fists, where's he holding the ball then? I'm just having a tough time visualizing this play.

Maybe he had it under his jersey.

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by BushRef
Rookie here, but gonna give it a crack. I think the question becomes, is this a dead ball or live ball foul (the USC).

If it's a Live ball foul, A declines the penalty, it's a TD

If they accept the penalty, I'm gonna GUESS you call it a live ball foul at the spot where he began to celebrate. Let's say that's the 20. So ya push em back to the 35 (15 yd penalty, and B gets one untimed down.

GO easy on me. I don't have my books available to see if this can be enforced as a live ball foul or not.

good job on the IG foul this past weekend. As for this one, grab your books. I won't give you the answer, that would be too easy...

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by BigGref
Youth league/ Fed rules, 7 seconds left in 4th quarter, A's ball at midfield (game just got tied 14-14). after a TO A1 drops to pass, decides to run. After 3-4 yards B1 strips the ball from A1, while already heading in thier direction.

He is 10 yards in front of everyone at about the 20 when the horn goes off and B1 goes into the endzone the last 20 yards pumping his fist (of both arms) and long stepping (in obvious taunting behavior). I reluctantely throw the flag for the USC. For this forums purpose what do we got and how would you handle this situation (which is very often administered as dead ball fouls)?

In the game at hand there was actually another personal foul on the return team after someone was hit OOB at about the 35 (so that made the penalty administration a lot easier {30 yards from the spot}) So again for this forums sake lets just say that the Celebration USC was the only foul

Objectionable Conduct can be applied on the next play. In this case, the choce is on the try or the ensuing kick-off.

If they choose to apply the penalty on the try, the game will be over after the try is over, and B will win whether the try is good or not - there is no ensuing kick-off.

Even though it is the last play of the game, A can choose to apply the penalty on the kick-off, thus inducing a kick-off that wouldn't normally be there. This is A's best option, as it gives them a fighting (albeit small) chance to win or tie.

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Oct 6th, 2004 at 11:56 PM]

[BigGref]

A little clarification; the late hit OOB was just a little after the takeaway, way before the TD. The double pump fist was odd looking, while he had the ball in one hand! Crazy game.

[keystoneref]

If the UC was the only foul, TD stands and it is enforced from the succeeding spot, which normally would be the try. In PA if the TD is scored on the last play in regulation and the try would not affect the outcome of the game then the try is not attempted. The yardage penalty in this situation is a freebie. However keep in mind if this particular foul would happen to be this players second UC he would still be ejected. In PA if your are disqualified you cannot play the following week at the same level of game. ie. if you were ejected from a JV game you could not play in the next JV game, however you could play in the next varsity game (go figure). If you were ejected from a varsity game you could not play in the next varsity game but you could play in the next JV game. So in this situation it could still cost the kid who committed the UC.

[PSU213]

Originally posted by BushRef
OK, after stewing on this one, I think I've got a solution. It just bothers the hell out of me that a team can be rewarded for this kind of behavior. So after much thought, here's what I'd do.

As soon as I see the "taunting" begin, I blow my whistle. I know, inadvertant whistle, but what the hell. It keeps him from getting the easy TD, and of course, we then have other issues to deal with, but in my mind, it beats allowing him to be an a-hole on the way in for the winning score.

First, they are not rewarded for this behavior, they are just not penalized. And, yes, it stinks that someone can act like an "a-hole," but I know one coach that is going to be mucho unhappy with an "inadvertant" whistle.

Adding to what keystoneref said, also being in PA, I would make sure he got 2 USC fouls for his showboating, but even his acting like an idiot should not take a TD away from the whole team. I certainly do not like the "celebration," but as someone else said, it did not have an effect on the play.

[SJoldguy]

[
Bushref: you can't intentionally blow your whistle on this. It is not our job to call them the way we would like the rules to be. We have to enforce the rules as they are written. Officials have input into rules changes, this is our only option to rules you don't like.