Detroit @ Boston foul tip that wasn't call...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

No.

MLB currently has a reasonable replay system. No reasonable replay system for baseball would allow fixing this.

I'm not a huge proponent of replay ... but this seems like one of the calls that would not disrupt the game if it were an allowable correctable error.

I'm vastly against the whole... "let's take the crew into the back room" replay nonsense. But if there was a replay official SOMEwhere that could simply call down to the umpire on a call like this, it would be non-disruptive and would fix egregious errors like this one.

[Dakota]

I am very much opposed to using replay in MLB, even what they have now. But, then, I'm a curmudgeonly old traditionalist. I also recognize that in today's game with all of the cameras showing replays to the fans, my position is untenable. Expanded replay will be here, if not next year, soon.

It could be greatly expanded to include any call that the current umpiring crew would conference over if it was done with a replay umpire ("RU") that was treated like another member of the crew, who would merely give information to the crew chief through an earpiece.

No one in the on-field crew would actually view the video; the crew chief could decide to use the information provided by RU, or ignore it. If he uses it, it would be done the same as any other umpire conference. The crew would get together and discuss RU's information. As with current umpire conferences, there would be no viewing of replays; only discussing the additional information. The call would be either upheld or overturned based on the conference, the same as it is done now.

[D Ray]

Not to pick a nit, but which errors are the egregious ones? Seems like the team that gets the smelly end of the stick would have an argument using egregious as the standard.

Video used as an instructional tool is a wonderful teaching aid. Video used to "correct an error" is a slippery slope. Where does it end? I am not suggesting that the clock get turned back to the days of one umpire for the whole field (unless he is equipped with a monitor ), but we need to let these guys umpire. They should be working hard because this is their chosen profession and they have a passion for the craft, not because they are trying to be as good as the eye in the sky.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I'm not a huge proponent of replay ... but this seems like one of the calls that would not disrupt the game if it were an allowable correctable error.

I'm vastly against the whole... "let's take the crew into the back room" replay nonsense. But if there was a replay official SOMEwhere that could simply call down to the umpire on a call like this, it would be non-disruptive and would fix egregious errors like this one.

Mike, you're thinking only of how bad the call is, and how much it merits reversing. You're not thinking about how impossible it would be to fix the vast majority of these situations.

This one was called foul with no runners moving. But what if R1 had been running? When you fix it, it will be a foul tip and a live ball. Are you going to send R1 back to 1B and screw the offense or send him to 2B and screw the defense?

The umpires might miss one now and again, but IMO fixing most of them would be impossible without introducing more controversy than the original error.

[jwwashburn]

Did I miss someone asking why the heck the 1B umpire called a foul ball here?

I would rather the HPU look at the ball and see no dirt than have this happen. (not that that is a good policy, either)

I do not want replay on this...it already happens too often. Why can't they just modify some of the ridiculous outfield fences? That makes more sense than three umpires going to have a soda...errr looking at the replay.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Did I miss someone asking why the heck the 1B umpire called a foul ball here?

I would rather the HPU look at the ball and see no dirt than have this happen. (not that that is a good policy, either).

In viewing the replay, you can see PU immediately look to U1 for help before making any call. PU got screened.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

In viewing the replay, you can see PU immediately look to U1 for help before making any call. PU got screened.

Don't most umpires get screened on plays like this? You almost always have to get some help or some kind of confirmation from the base umpires in these situations. Or you hope the players act appropriately to help you make the call.

Peace

[jwwashburn]

Ok, but if i am the 1BU...there is no way I am calling anything other than the out that the HPU already called unless I am SURE of something else. The guy at 1B guessed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Ok, but if i am the 1BU...there is no way I am calling anything other than the out that the HPU already called unless I am SURE of something else. The guy at 1B guessed.

The HPU called something? It looked like he was totally confused. Not sure why the 1BU could not see this or just make a call. Then again maybe he was sleeping like a lot of us do when nothing is going on at the plate. But this is why you have to concentrate and be engaged in the game.

Peace

[kape]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This one was called foul with no runners moving. But what if R1 had been running?

To me, this is the problem with replay in baseball. So much hinges on what has happened immediately before that I am fine with living with the bad calls. Once umpires start placing runners it begins to resemble a board game.

You might say, Well, reserve replay for the boundary calls or for when there are no runners on base. Why should baseball fix some umpiring errors but not others? I say, live with them all.

[David B]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Mike, you're thinking only of how bad the call is, and how much it merits reversing. You're not thinking about how impossible it would be to fix the vast majority of these situations.

This one was called foul with no runners moving. But what if R1 had been running? When you fix it, it will be a foul tip and a live ball. Are you going to send R1 back to 1B and screw the offense or send him to 2B and screw the defense?

The umpires might miss one now and again, but IMO fixing most of them would be impossible without introducing more controversy than the original error.

I concur - its' just not possible without disrupting the game. In baseball more than any other sport, calls made on the field dictate what the offense or defense does or does not do.

This play is just one of many, many examples where it just don't work in baseball.

Thanks
David

[MD Longhorn]

I see your points.

[teccan9nja]

From how I understand a Foul Tip, not calling it really doesn't matter. It acts like a regular swinging strike. the ball remains live, runners can advance. Its just if its not caught that it matters and becomes a regular Foul Ball. So how does not calling a foul tip mean something?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by teccan9nja

From how I understand a Foul Tip, not calling it really doesn't matter. It acts like a regular swinging strike. the ball remains live, runners can advance. Its just if its not caught that it matters and becomes a regular Foul Ball. So how does not calling a foul tip mean something?

Because when it is called FOUL, everyone stops. If the umpire caused everyone to stop, and it turns out the play was actually live... how do you fix it?

[Dakota]

It could work if it is treated like additional information from another umpire. In situations that can't be fixed, you live with the call, and in situations as in the Detroit / Boston game, you reverse the call, batter out, inning over. In my thoughts, stated earlier, this would be the crew chief's decision whether or not to use the additional information from the replay umpire.