buffalo detroit game

[ref5678]

just wondering how many of you saw this game. Their was a particular knotty play i wanted to get some clarafaction on. Ill formation on the punting team at the snap. A holding penalty against K during the punt, then an ILL block in the back against R after the kick had ended. The referee first came on and said that it was R's ball because they recived it with clean hands (then the announcers proved how little they really know about rules) and enforced the ILL Block in the back then he came back on and said the pens. offset and a replay of the down. Anyway what would the ruling on this be in a NFHS game.

[Rich]

Originally posted by ref5678
just wondering how many of you saw this game. Their was a particular knotty play i wanted to get some clarafaction on. Ill formation on the punting team at the snap. A holding penalty against K during the punt, then an ILL block in the back against R after the kick had ended. The referee first came on and said that it was R's ball because they recived it with clean hands (then the announcers proved how little they really know about rules) and enforced the ILL Block in the back then he came back on and said the pens. offset and a replay of the down. Anyway what would the ruling on this be in a NFHS game.

Depends. Speaking NFHS:

R did receive the ball with clean hands. If they choose to decline K's penalties, R keeps the ball but the IBB against R will be enforced.

If that's not agreeable to R, they can choose to have one of K's penalty enforced and there is a double foul, with offsets the penalties.

K has NO options on this play whatsoever -- all options are held by R.

--Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Sep 4th, 2004 at 07:38 PM]

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ref5678
just wondering how many of you saw this game. Their was a particular knotty play i wanted to get some clarafaction on. Ill formation on the punting team at the snap. A holding penalty against K during the punt, then an ILL block in the back against R after the kick had ended. The referee first came on and said that it was R's ball because they recived it with clean hands (then the announcers proved how little they really know about rules) and enforced the ILL Block in the back then he came back on and said the pens. offset and a replay of the down. Anyway what would the ruling on this be in a NFHS game.

So we have illegal procedure on A. 5y from PLS, DR. (4.1.4)

Holding on A during the punt. 10y from PLS (DR) if the ball is not airborne, or PP (DC) if it has been kicked. (7.1.1 and either 7.2.2 or 7.2.4a, respectively.)

Illegal block on B after the change of possession. 10 yards from PBH. (7.1.3, 7.2.3)

So there are two possibilites, based on when the holding occured:

We have a dual foul situation, since there are fouls by both teams on the same down. Fouls are applied from the spot of the first accepted foul. (8.6.1)

If the holding was before the punt, it is 10 yards from PLS. The illegal block is 10 yards. So these will offset in distance, and will result in DR at the PLS. (8.2.2 and 8.6.2b)

If the holding was after the ball was punted, it is applied from PP. (The covering official has bagged the PP.) The illegal block is also 10 yards. So these will offset in distance, and will result in DC at PP. (8.2.4a and 8.6.2b)

In both cases, it is B's choice, since A's foul occured first in both scenarios. So I would say that if the kick was a good one, then B will have A kick again, unless the DTG is short (the PLS is near the LTG). If the kick was a crappy one, then B has cool field position, and will scrimmage from there.

OR

B will decline the holding and accept the illegal procedure. This will guarantee a replay of 4th down, at the expense of 5 yards. This is useful if the kick was good and the hold happened with the ball in flight. (8.2.2 and 8.6.2b)

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Sep 4th, 2004 at 07:07 PM]

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Agree with Rich. And remember that the IBB against R is enforced as a PSK foul.

[Patton]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: Agree with Rich. And remember that the IBB against R is enforced as a PSK foul.

Why PSK? The post said we had an IBB after the kick had ended. Enforce using all-but-one, right?

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by Patton

Why PSK? The post said we had an IBB after the kick had ended. Enforce using all-but-one, right?

REPLY: You're absolutely right...I misread the post.