courtesy runner

[CT1]

"Coach, he runs for the *position*, not the player."

[umpjim]

Coach: "12 FOR 8 CR". Me: OK, 12 is out and restricted to the dugout.
Jim Evans: "That is not a practical way to umpire."

I'm conflicted about not allowing an illegal sub which aids a coach and further aid such as can I do this or you could do this. It's a slippery slope.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Coach: "12 FOR 8 CR". Me: OK, 12 is out and restricted to the dugout.
Jim Evans: "That is not a practical way to umpire."

I'm conflicted about not allowing an illegal sub which aids a coach and further aid such as can I do this or you could do this. It's a slippery slope.

You're not doing it to aid a coach. You're doing it to enforce the rules, and to keep a kid in the game despite his coach not knowing the rules.

Same as keeping a kid with an illegal bat from entering the batters box, if you see it first. If not, enforce the rule.

It's preventive officiating, and it's the right thing to do.

[Steven Tyler]

I would never intentionally allow a coach put in an illegal substitute in on offense. Defense would be harder to control.

There have been an occasion or two when I've had to help the coach with the line-up with re-entry through.

At the sub-varsity level, I've bent the rule a couple of times, also. At the time it was right to do. Ask if you want to know what I did?

[Rich]

"Coach, if he runs, it's as a pinch runner. He can't courtesy run there since he's already run for the catcher."

I have no intention of coaching a coach, all I'm doing is stating a fact after he's run a runner out there. It's his decision at that point.

[FTVMartin]

Not an illegal sub unless he had CR earlier in the inning. When he takes the position of a runner he becomes a substitute and not a CR since he was not eligible. He is now in the game legally and they will have to use the re-entry rule if they don't want to keep him in.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

Not an illegal sub unless he had CR earlier in the inning. When he takes the position of a runner he becomes a substitute and not a CR since he was not eligible. He is now in the game legally and they will have to use the re-entry rule if they don't want to keep him in.

Incorrect.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

Not an illegal sub unless he had CR earlier in the inning. When he takes the position of a runner he becomes a substitute and not a CR since he was not eligible. He is now in the game legally and they will have to use the re-entry rule if they don't want to keep him in.

Once the coach says, "courtesy runner for the pitcher," you cannot simply make this player an unannounced sub. Disallow the CR and, if you like, clarify that the sub may enter the game only as a pinch runner (and will subsequently be ineligible to serve as a CR again).